Here’s the lead (first paragraph) on a National Geographic feature interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci published on Monday:
“ANTHONY ‘TONY’ FAUCI has become the scientific face of America’s COVID-19 response, and he says the best evidence shows the virus behind the pandemic was not made in a lab in China.”
It’s sad, but just saying that makes Fauci, once again, a profile in courage.
He’s a scientist, and he’s just giving his best analysis of what the “best evidence” shows, but since it contradicts President Trump’s utterly unscientific, evidence-be-damned belief that China made the virus and Trump’s oft-expressed suspicion that China unleashed it on purpose, and since Trump has a horrifying-but-no-longer-surprising tendency to fire people who disagree with him, and since Fauci works for him, and since Fauci has, on a number of occasions, quietly declined to lend his credibility to things Trump says ( a habit that causes many executive branch officials to get fired), saying such a thing makes the calm, principled, ethical director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (a position he has held under Democratic and Republicans administrations since 1984) something of a profile in courage in the sense that he says what the science leads him to believe (which, in the administration of other presidents did not seem to require so much courage).
Maybe, since he’ll turn 80 late this year, he just doesn’t need the gig. But I prefer crediting his courage, especially during the demoralizing presidency of a man who doesn’t tolerate independent thought very well and whose TV catchphrase was “you’re fired.”
The happiest news in the piece is that Fauci believes it’s possible that an effective vaccine for coronavirus might be available as soon as January. But, sadly, it’s only May, and Fauci is certainly worried (and willing to say out loud) that there’s a substantial chance of a major resurgence in new cases later this year. He encourages masks, and urges social distancing, all of which makes a lot of sense but nonetheless, considering who his boss is, makes him a man of integrity.
I’ll stop blabbing and leave as much time as you need to read the whole National Geographic feature on, and interview with, Fauci. You can access it here.
Fauchi has managed to correct his trajectory and has maintained a fairly even keel, but he is not the hero the left seems to hope he is.
He’s as prone to mistakes as anyone…even Trump. https://bit.ly/3dvo7B1
He’s also not an intelligence agent. I have no idea what the truth of the source of this virus, other than it certainly originated in Wuhan, China and that the Chinese Communist Party quashed all mention of it during the outbreak, and has consistently lied to the world ever since.
I’m kind of at a loss to explain why some people are so willing to act as apologists for them, tbh.
In the famous words of a tattered ex-hero of the conservative movement: “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me….you can’t get fooled again.”
“China lied!” Seriously? That’s gonna be Trump’s “defense”? Best of Luck.
He isn’t perfect, but the idea that he is as mistake-prone as a guy who suggested injecting bleach is laughable.
Trump inherited a fortune and has squandered it failing at one business venture after another. He is one gigantic mistake.
“the idea that he is as mistake-prone as a guy who suggested injecting bleach is laughable.”
Pat, the idea there are still people out there that believe Trump suggested injecting bleach, despite all of the debunking from all sides in the media is sad.
What are you talking about? There is video of him saying it. There is nothing to debunk. The manufacturers of those products had to issue statements advising people not to ingest them. You have to be completely and utterly delusional to deny that it happened.
And then Trump said that he was being sarcastic. So wait, did he not say it, or was it sarcasm? Seriously, can you believe that anyone thinks of Trump as anything than a total clown?
Fauci is a man of science. A man who has spent his career helping people. Again, maybe not perfect, but a true hero.
Trump is a man who has spent his life lying and defrauding people. Who has no business sense. No negotiating skills. He’s just a game-show actor who has fooled people into believing things that are obviously not true (like the statement on video mentioned above). A man with no compassion, a man who uses divisiveness and resentment to push his agenda.
What’s truly sad is that there are people who will take Donald Trump’s word about how to deal with an infectious illness at face value – resulting in a spike of injuries and hospital visits across the country from people who have tried ingesting disinfectant, including bleach, because the President suggested it (“What have you got to lose?” he said.) – and reject the advice of someone who is exponentially better trained, and has decades of experience in just this sort of contagious illness scenario. Donald Trump’s qualifications for issuing medical advice are precisely zero.
“the idea there are still people out there that believe Trump suggested injecting bleach, despite all of the debunking from all sides in the media is sad.”
He really did that. The fact that you don’t accept what is clearly documented and even claim it’s been debunked is truly sad to hear.
“My point is that even people with a “firm adherence to science” must never be granted a blanket consensus.”
It’s also sad that you don’t extend any skepticism about the president.
“the Chinese Communist Party quashed all mention of it during the outbreak, and has consistently lied to the world ever since.”
Straight out of the game show hosts mouth to yours without a shred of evidence to support it.
Trump didn’t squander his inherited fortune. It was estimated to be around $2 billion or so the last time I searched that info, a few years ago. Of course, if he’d just flunked out of high school and became a hopeless drunk, but put his inherited money into guaranteed, no-risk, no-work-at-all-required-of-him investments, his fortune would now be around as large as it is after decades of non-stop work, grifting, lying, cheating, and stealing, with a degree from the top business college in the United States, totally paid for by Daddy.
“He’s as prone to mistakes as anyone…even Trump.”
Does he deny making those mistakes? Does he lash out at those who point them out to them.
I’m not sure he’s been confronted with his mistakes. I certainly haven’t seen it yet, although I’m sure it will be an inevitable topic when the financial chips start really falling among the formerly middle class population in a month or two.
My point is that even people with a “firm adherence to science” must never be granted a blanket consensus. It’s a truism we have seen repeatedly the past 10 years or so.
The only quote I ever take at face value from a scientist is “we think this thing is true, but we cannot confirm it until it has been proven and the proof has replicated.”
It’s apparent to many middle of the roaders that Fauchi’s attraction to the left is that he occasionally contradicts Trump, and has little to do with science or his grasp of it.
“I’m not sure he’s been confronted with his mistakes.”
Do you even listen to what the man says? If he can’t shift blame, he lies his way out of it.
My point is that a blowhard with no scientific training who owes such education as he has to his father’s checkbook should not be taken as an authority over someone with demonstrated training and experience.
I was responding to your statement “Does he deny making those mistakes?” regarding Fauchi, not Trump.
No one has asked Fauchi about his mistaken conclusions and opinions. Trump is questioned incessantly.
People often seem to have trouble following threads of their own making here.
Are you using two names to post here?
What.The.Hell?
I was wondering where Mr O’Keefe went.
Another rightwing scam.
Having an identity crisis are we?
In the immortal words of Daffy Duck, “Ah! Pronoun trouble!”
Come on, nobody is saying the guy is infallible, but a quick look at his CV says he rarely gets it wrong.
A 50 year distinguished career as a leader in his field, yeah, I’m going to listen to him, but remember, science is driven by skepticism, so I remain skeptical of advice like using HVC light for a deep cleaning of the lungs.
Fauci may not be an intelligence agent, but he is an intelligent scientist with a lifetime of virus research. He is uniquely qualified to judge the relative likelihood of different hpotheses about the origin of Covid.
Right now he is doing a tap dance — trying to speak facts when possible without joining the exodus from Trump’s regime.
No, he’s not an “intelligence agent”. Fauci is actually a far more critical component in the process–he’s the intended consumer and user of the intelligence “product”. He’s the very sort of official for whom the intelligence is collected– a decision maker.
And unlike the unqualified fool Trump, it’s highly likely he understands how to (sensibly) use it.
Wonderful point. Thank you.
Great choice of topic, since we are being assured that the Trump regime will soon be trotting out some sort of “report” (exactly by whom is not too clear) “proving” some sort of massive deceit and malevolence by the “Chinese Communist Party” vis-a-vis Covid-19.
Trump keeps moving the goalposts on this little project, since it appears the traditional intelligence community isn’t too willing to “fix the facts around the policy” this time (to use one of the greatest phrases of intelligence corruption from the (now longed-for) Bush/Cheney years). So no one in “Intelligence” is willing to say Covid-19 is a human-manufactured virus, nor do they even seem willing to say that the virus (somehow) came from this (heretofore respected) research lab. Most likely this won’t stop the Trump regime and its ridiculous sycophants like Pompeo and enablers like Senator Cotten.
Or else the claim will devolve into some weaker form of “China lied about [X]!” As though the US of A should have been basing its public health response to a dangerous virus entirely upon public statements by the Chinese Government! And leave aside the (uncontested) reporting that the CIA’s hair was on fire over Covid in the President’s Daily Briefing report(s), which by all accounts Trump ignores and can’t stand.
As for truth-teller Doc Fauci, he seems to have nine lives, since he has done more than enough to merit ignominious dismissal by the erstwhile dictator. Will undercutting what is obviously going to become Trump’s campaign “defense” to the developing Trump Depression be the last straw for the good doctor?
And does he perhaps simply want to be fired for telling the truth to Trump? One has to say that would be a noble capstone to an illustrious 35 year career in public service…
No one should be surprised that Trump – and many in the GOP – keep pushing the China lab theory. That’s straight from the Trump playbook: blame someone, something, anything(!) else, then repeat. Float a lie out there enough times the cult – sorry, the base – will believe it, and repeat it.
If Fauci actually used science he would explain to Americans that well over half of the 67k deaths in USA are from 5 states. He would then explain it is not even in 5 states, it is in 10-12 counties where over half the deaths are occurring. He would then tell Americans that over 90% of deaths are of people with comorbidities (no matter the age)and average age of death is 80. Fauci would also tell folks under 45 they have almost no chance of dying from COVID 19. He would then say 80% of folks who do get COViD 19 will have no symptoms or mild symptoms.
After folks actually got the facts, they would not be so panicked and the “one size fits all, hide in your basement” Big Government mandate would not make sense.
That is what science in America does, it gives you the facts and let’s you come up with what works best for you. It is called Freedom!
Gee, looks like you should be his replacement, got this all figured out, have you sent your resume to Trump and team?
Ain’t no fancy college degrees or scientific experience that can whip good ol’ common sense!
PS: “Big Government mandate” you know Trump and company are now big governemnt? So this is all Trump’s fault right? He doesn’t have to take his ques from Fauci, he is the President in charge of everything, you know like a king!
Yes, indeed. It’s quite clear that Dr Fauci is really a liberally-biased political operative. It’s obvious his life’s dream was to shut down the America economy for no real reason!
What else could one conclude from his 35+ year career in high positions in the federal government?
The death panel has weighed in.
You are so right!! Fauci should know – as you do – that:
– Deaths of those over age 45 don’t matter.
– People with comorbidity (the three biggest: rare ones like hypertension, obesity, and diabetes) deserve to die.
– Those who do not have symptoms, or have mild symptoms, don’t spread the disease.
No Harris, you put 80% of your resources towards those people who are the most vulnerable. One size fits all, doesn’t work, after the facts come in, you adjust your plan. Walz has continued to push “hide in your basement”, not shift towards let us protect the most vulnerable… Huge mistake!
Nothing in Walz’s plan or any other social distancing plan I’ve read about ever said anything about “hide in your basement.” It was not a quarantine. It was a reasonable measure to prevent spread of a dangerous virus calibrated toward buying time to gain the data and the testing, which as we know was in short supply, and to “flatten the curve”. “Flattening the curve” was and remains necessary to reserve the limited ICU capacity for those who developed the worst symptoms. You forget that only a fraction of those who are exposed or become infected develop life-threatening symptoms. We still don’t know who is likely to develop those symptoms or even who is infected because the testing is still not available to test everyone. Walz’s decisions are mistaken only to those who don’t understand the issue or what’s at stake.
Morbid as H but still funny! As PT would say, welcome to the Trump/Republican death panel, hey you lived past 60 time to go!
“but he is not the hero the left seems to hope he is” So evidently the right thinks he is a loser? Seems 5 previous presidents had faith in him, that is 1 H of a resume from this perspective, Who you putting up that’s got a better resume/references a dog breeder?
At the end of March Dr Fauci predicted up to 200K American deaths from C-19. Why did the “responsible” doctor do that ? That wasn’t science…it was Las Vegas hyperbole. The lime light simply exposes his human nature for what it is…self centered, reckless, untouchable, dangerous.
Um, have you checked the latest mortality estimates from the various models? Like the one indicating we are still building to the peak and hitting 3,000 deaths a day?
Dear Leader: “there are 15 cases and soon it will be zero.”
Dr. Fauci (according to you): “up to 200K American deaths.”
Let’s check in around August and see whose prediction was closer! (Spoiler: Trump is already out of the running on idiocy grounds)
While I agree with Mr. Black’s assessment of Dr. Anthony Fauci, Mr. Black is guilty of being mesmerized by the bright, shining object known as television presence.
Rick Bright, former federal Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority director, was laterally demoted because of his constant effort to slow down tRump’s rush toward administering hydroxychloroquine citing the same scientific reasons as Dr. Fauci. Learn about the whistleblower complaint he has just filed. I argue that Mr. Bright had the more difficult fight because Dr. Fauci only has to contend with tRump while Mr. Bright had to deal with several political hacks.
Mr. Bright’s congressional testimony next week will be most interesting, including:
“Questionable contracts have gone to “companies with political connections to the administration,” the complaint said, including a drug company tied to a friend of Jared Kushner’s, President Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser.”
Trump defenders need to start tuning up their rationales why this country is so lucky to have Jared Kushner at our service. Doing for COVID19 what he did for Mideast peace…
Whenever I see the blank, affectless face of (Shadow President) Jared Kushner, I am reminded of Monty Python’s immortal “Upper Class Twit of the Year” skit….
I am a politician. And I think the worst thing about being a politician is that it never requires courage, it requires the demanding of courage from others. Our leaders aren’t courageous, this isn’t Russia, none of them will be lined up against a wall if they fail.
The choices faced by Dr. Fauci have nothing to do with courage. They have to do with effectiveness and not being effective. Of making compromises with evil in order to serve a greater or at least a different good.
When you stand 6′ in front of the POTUS and addressing an audience of millions and directly contradict him and then stand by that and even double down as he did in the NAT GEO piece, well, let’s give him credit for a little courage.
It’s really revealing how the cult is so eager to tear down Dr. Fauci, even to the point of questioning his scientific credentials. When it casts Trump in a bad light, let’s parrot what the Fox ghouls bring up about Fauci. Let’s also claim that they have a better understanding of how this virus works; the dangers it poses; and what we should be doing about it than a person who has spent his life dealing with diseases that have or might become pandemics.
No problem sticking with the idiot who mused about injecting disinfectants; or said this would be over in May; or who refuses to wear a mask; or who put his insipid son-in-law in charge of yet another venture he’s totally unqualified to do.
And therein lies the conundrum of public health policy. If epidemiologists start by giving you a possible “worst-case scenario”, based on their best evidence, and it doesn’t happen (or hasn’t happened yet) you can always go back and say they were COMPLETELY wrong. Of course, if the opposite happened you could also say they were completely wrong, too. You got all your bases covered, regardless. Nice for you.
How all this plays out is very dependent on what we do at every juncture. Folks quoting statistics with an attitude of certitude are almost always working from woefully deficient total information. All sides. And cherry-picking one possible instance where Fauci may have overstated possible fatalities (though again, this is far from over) is not equivalent to president “happy talk” glossing over all the risks and advice he has been given.
Fauci has this mantle of trust by default. Trump and his minions surrendered it. It was not because of ‘attacks from the left or fake news or biased media’. Trump is not trustworthy because he does not lead our nation. He lies, deflects, blames others, and refuses to take responsibility. Trump has done no heavy lifting in any of this.
Everyone worries about the economy. None of that is on Dr. Fauci. He’s an epidemiologist, not an economist. He is asked about a highly contagious disease and he gives you the best answers he can. He explains himself very well and admits when different data conflate one another about possible conclusions.
It is not the left elevating Dr. Fauci, it is the right that want to ascribe to him false motives. We are only about one step from the fringe right declaring he is somehow part of their conspiracy deep state. This, despite the fact he has worked with every president since Reagan. But I sometimes forget that for Trump fans, there has never been a prior president who was not a fraud or a ‘rino’. Some real pretzel logic there.
Over his entire esteemed career, Fauci’s concern has been public health. I don’t honestly think any of the president’s acolytes can say Donald Trump’s greatest concern is public health. At all.
Yes, but:
“You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great super genius. Dr. John Trump. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this? ‘ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
It continues to amaze me that Trump supporters can hear all this stuff, right from the horse’s mouth, and act like all is OK.
Fauci has also made it abundantly clear that the president has never gone against his or Dr. Birx’s recommendations. The media has tried desperately to goad Fauci into “admitting” he’s just a puppet for the president; he hasn’t caved to that suggestion, either, making it emphatically clear when one CBS reporter implied as much. He didn’t appreciate it.
Back in the beginning, it was Fauci’s view the president echoed, whether it be that the American public generally had little to worry about, or later on closing the borders. It’s amazing to me the extent to which many try to write off the President’s role. But also amazing how the “bad” decisions, many of which came straight from Fauci (the “science guy”), are attributed to Trump’s ignoring science, and the “good” decisions, well, that must have been other people, like Fauci.
It’s quite realistic that, once the virus was out of China, there was only so much Trump and his team could do. The Coronavirus Task Force did what it could. The science tells us that corona viruses in general are difficult to stop. There is no killer vaccine for influenza, the common cold, and there likely won’t be one for Covid-19. I hope I’m wrong.
Whatever one thinks of Trump, he’s done what he or any president cand and could do. The criticism seems more targeted at people’s perception that Trump “doesn’t care.” This is obtuse. People with that view either never watched the many briefings the president presided over, or they are willfully ignorant.
I have to disagree that Trump did all any president could do with respect to Covid-19. Overall, it seems to me that Trump could have taken this threat seriously much sooner than he did, rather than minimizing the danger and claiming that everything was under control when it clearly wasn’t. What was Trump doing in February? He went golfing and he had rallies. He did nothing to prepare the federal stockpiles of PPE, he did nothing to raise awareness of the danger, he pretended nothing was wrong. More recently, Trump and his administration could have helped to coordinate the purchase and distribution of medical supplies based on need, in a non-partisan manner. Instead he asks blue states to do him a favor and show their appreciation, or leaves them to compete with the feds and each other to procure what they need. He advocates “reopening” states although they do not meet the federal guidelines set forth by his own taskforce—which is, now that I think of it, going against the advice of Drs. Fauci and Birx.
Would Hilary Clinton have done better than Donald Trump in this crisis? I think so. Frankly, I think the average person on the street would have done better. It would be hard to do much worse.
“Fauci has also made it abundantly clear that the president has never gone against his or Dr. Birx’s recommendations.”
“As a handful of states begin to ease stay-at-home restrictions, no state that has opted to reopen has come close to the federally recommended decline in cases over a 14-day period.”
The 14 Day declining case rule was recommended by Fauci and Brix. Trump has not only declined to enforce this rule (remember he told us he is the ultimate authority) he actively encourages states to ignore it.
We’ll give you 3 Pinocchios on that one…
Would you get a second opinion on a life changing treatment advised to you by your family Doctor? If the answer is no, believe everything you hear from one source. If your answer is yes, look up other Doctors who disagree with Fauci, it is not that hard. I recommend Doctor Atlas from Hoover Institute.
Lemmings follow each other over the cliff, folks that think for themselves look at multiple sources and make decisions best for them and their loved ones. Seems like jumping over the cliff is much easier and many folks are in mid air right now…. So sad COVID 19 is political. Science means knowledge, not following the crowd.
Yes it is sad that COVID-19 is political. I wonder why?
Let’s turn your question about getting a second opinion around. Would you go to a doctor like your Dr. Atlas, whose fee was being paid by politically partisan groups to give you medical advice about a life threatening situation? If your answer is no, then why do you question the advice from not just one person-Dr. Fauci, but dozens of other medical professionals and epidemiologists? Based on his recent opinion piece, the Atlas advice to his patients is: “Ignore the shelter in place orders because your risk of dying from this disease is very small.” https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation
His piece is filled with highly debatable and possibly misleading “facts” that are easy for a paid ideologue to propagate. The fact that the only “skin-in-the-game” Dr. Atlas has is his position and salary with a partisan “think-tank” to create propaganda and dissent tells me he’d be the last person on earth I’d go to for advice on anything.
The risk of dying -for an individual- is small, but a one-in-a-thousand risk for a population of 350 million is 350 thousand. That many deaths produces a disruption that effects everyone. A few may profit; most will suffer.
Have you looked at all the doctors who disagree with Dr. Atlas? Or are you just being a lemming?
Looking up Scott W. Atlas on the Hoover institute web site, I see that he has written a lot of books (or a few books many times) and a lot of Fox news interviews.
What I did not see were any peer reviewed publications.
Looking him up on Stanford Profiles, he does have a few publications on imaging; nothing on virii or infectious diseases.
In other words, he does not have Fauci’s qualifications.
“Science means knowledge, not following the crowd”
The “crowd” is the folks who create data based on accepted scientific procedure and then summarize and publish that data in a manner subject to peer review by fellow professionals (AKA “scientists”).
Nice to see that you now embrace science.
I guess we can now move you to endorsing the prevailing science that supports climate change consequences in addition to COVID19 prevailing consensus.
FYI: Sean Hannity is not a scientist.
Come on now, you’ve got to be reasonable. You know that the only valid “science” is a science that supports conservative policy choices.
And if the overwhelming weight of (current) scientific opinion opposes those choices, then you invoke Galileo!
No, but Trump is one by familial relationship.
And if you believe that, I’ve got a couple of bridges back in the old country that are up for sale.
Always bears repeating:
“You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great super genius. Dr. John Trump. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this? ‘ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
And shortly after that he suggested Clorox injections….
Science means following the truth. Following the crowd or not following the crowd has little to do with it. Why is it that so many conservatives feel forced to find the scientist that doesn’t ‘follow the crowd’? Is it that none of the conventionally accepted approaches appeal to them?
There is no real need to demean Dr. Atlas’ record. He seems like a fine guy, but he is a think tank guy, not a boots-on-the-ground guy about pandemics. Be honest, you don’t like him because of any of his qualifications. You like him because he must feel the way you do. That’s the level of your second opinion. Keep looking until you find a doctor that agrees with you.
Also, just because there are hotspot states, hotspot counties, hotspot industries (like meat processing and long-term care facilities) does not mean Covid-19 will not visit your ‘sanctuary’ wherever it may be, eventually. Limiting exposure means buying time for more than medical facilities. It also means buying time to develop more effective treatments and even possible vaccines. For a completely new virus (not influenza, which we have a great deal of ways of dealing with).
People preaching the power of herd mentality are in no way assured that this virus will follow that path. Not yet. Doing what’s best for you does not allow you to endanger me without consequences. “Freedom!” the way you seem to be expressing it, does not allow you to play typhoid mary to the rest of us.
A minor correction:
Truth/falsehood is a characteristic of internally consistent systems like religion and mathematics.
Science, on the other hand, follows the data. As there can always be another observation, science can never be absolutely true, just an increasingly greater approximation to it.
“Freedom to be Typhoid Mary” perfectly encapsulates the conservative position…
The fact that someone like Atlas is being taken seriously in a discussion involving Dr. Fauci demonstrates the kind of scientific illiteracy rampant in this country.
I had to look, and the Hoover gang aligns with Trump, let m die, it won’t be that bad, how many, not their problem, casualties of the economy. These guys will play it both ways, with the lock down, see we told you it wouldn’t be that bad, now the governors screwed up the economy, not incompetent Trump. And if they open too soon and folks die, the governors are responsible for the death toll! What’s new, don’t fix anything just complain about it. Example, when Trump said the meat packing plants had to stay open, why didn’t he say ok, we are going to help by making sure we can test every worker coming in once every 3 days? Not his problem, nor does he want to fix it.
I agree with most of you. Dr. Fauci has always been correct with everything he has said. Now we must listen to him. We must keep the country closed. Sure people will go hungry. Thousands will lose their businesses. Thousands more will die from a host of problems, but Fauci will still be employed and eating well. Still wearing a mask he has always insisted we must wear. Still supporting the WHO for only providing accurate info. Stop being a racist. Close the country. Who cares about all those people whose lives will suffer. Agree with Governor Cuomo. Protect our young people.