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Fraud! Suppression! Aspersions! Dueling press conferences wake up a sleepy secretary of state race

Dan Severson
Dan Severson

Finding the current election cycle a little boring? Then you might want to start paying closer attention to the race for Minnesota secretary of state, which erupted into flaming talk of voter suppression and fraud at dueling news conferences Tuesday.

Unbeknownst to each other, Republican secretary of state candidate Dan Severson had scheduled a 10 a.m. news conference, while DFL party chair Ken Martin had scheduled his own 11 a.m. newser to talk about the secretary of state race. In the same room.

As it turned out, the back-to-back pressers were actually back to back to back. First Severson. Then Martin. Then Severson again.

Initially, Severson had planned to devote his news event to the subject of voter participation among members of the military. Among other things, Severson contends that President Barack Obama’s administration, current secretary of state Mark Ritchie and DFL secretary of state candidate Rep. Steve Simon have all participated in efforts to suppress voting by members of the military.

A rebuke and rebuttal

But at 11 a.m., Severson moved to the back of the room in the state office building in St. Paul as the DFL’s Martin moved to the front. At that news conference, Martin rebuked Severson for claiming that DFLers are winning elections with fraudulent votes. 

Martin said that at a Tea Party event in June, Severson claimed that Sen. Al Franken had won his 2008 election as a result of voter fraud. At that same meeting, Martin said, Severson claimed the DFL had re-captured control of the Legislature also because of fraudulent votes.

“The last thing we need is a conspiracy theorist as secretary of state,’’ Martin said. “I call on [GOP gubernatorial candidate] Jeff Johnson and [Republican Party Chair] Keith Downey to refute Severson’s unfounded and irresponsible allegations. I question Severson’s ability to be secretary of state when he makes dangerous allegations of crimes that don’t exist.’’

After Martin was done, Severson marched back to the front of the room. He did not deny that he has made the claims cited by Martin.

“I’m not casting aspersions,’’ Severson said. “I’m saying let’s solve the problem.’’

An aspersion-like ring

But suggesting that DFLers win races because they cheat sounds a bit like an aspersion. And suggesting that DFLers are attempting to suppress military votes also had something of an aspersion-like ring to it.

“I have grave doubts [about the integrity of the system],’’ Severson said. “I was at a meeting of about 100 people last night and asked, ‘How many of you think there’s voter fraud?’ Everyone raised their hand.’’

DFL Party Chair Ken Martin
DFL Party Chair Ken Martin

But Severson said it’s not just his observations at campaign rallies that cause him to have doubts about the integrity of the system. He cited the “study” of an organization called Minnesota Majority that claimed there were more than 6,000 fraudulent voters in the 2008 Senate race in which, after a recount, Al Franken defeated incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman by just over 300 votes.

A series of studies, however, has found that the Minnesota Majority report was not accurate. And in his press conference Tuesday, Martin pointed out that in the recounts of the Coleman-Franken race and the Tom Emmer-Mark Dayton race of 2010, both parties “spent millions of dollars” as ballots across the state were recounted.

“Not a single instance of voter fraud was found,’’ Martin said.

The absentee ballot

What of the charge of suppressing military voters? Severson said another reason for Franken’s victory over Coleman is that about 300 military absentee ballots were not counted.

Beyond that, Severson said, there’s low voter turnout among Minnesotans serving overseas because of complexities in the system. And as chairman of the House Elections committee, Simon did nothing to address the problems in the last session, said Severson.

Martin countered with a series of charges: First, that when Severson was a member of the House, he did not write a single bill supporting changes in military voting. Second, that as a state representative, he voted against moving the primary from September to August, a move that was crucial to opening up the absentee process to those in the military. And third, that the Pentagon has praised Minnesota for its efforts to improve voter participation among those in the military.

Charge of ‘a death-bed conversion’

He accused Severson, who is a retired military vet, of “a death-bed conversion’’ on the entire military voting issue.

Severson was short on stats regarding military voting. He wants Minnesota to adopt a voting system for members of the military that is similar to the one used in Arizona. In that state, those serving in the military can vote online. But Severson didn’t know whether Arizona has higher participation among those serving than Minnesota. Nor did he know how much such a system would cost.

Severson did say that about 15 per cent of Minnesotans in the military voted in local elections in 2008, a number that fell to about 5 percent in the off-year election of 2010.

Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of the dueling news conferences is what other signals were trying to be sent. Did Severson schedule his as a desperate bid to tie himself to the military and to inflame those in his GOP base convinced DFLers only win because they cheat? Did Martin schedule his because the DFL is concerned that Simon needs to raise the profile of a down-ticket race?  

Comments (41)

  1. Submitted by Kurt Nelson on 10/14/2014 - 03:25 pm.

    Judge Posner’s dissent

    Last week, Judge Posner, of the 7th Circuit, wrote a blistering dissent, where he takes apart, or more eviscerates the continued misinformation about voter fraud. I suppose the paranoid on the right will call him an activist judge, although he was a Reagan appointee, and is the most cited judge in in the last 80 years, but I digress.
    Mr. Severson ought to take a look at this dissent, he might learn that voter fraud is the fraud.
    Here it is.

  2. Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/14/2014 - 03:48 pm.

    The desperate tone taken by Martin and Grow suggest to me and many others that Severson has hit an especially tender spot in the DFL machinery.

    Heck, even the fact that Martin felt the need to immediately and personally blow smoke at Severson’s presser says volumes.

    SOS Ritchie, a beneficiary of George Soros’ “Secretary of State Project”, was constantly working to make voting easier for people who don’t even participate enough in society to have a valid ID, but did nothing to assist those who are putting their lives in danger to protect our very democracy.

    Many Minnesotan’s do not trust the integrity of their elections. It’s time for a change.

    • Submitted by Eric Ferguson on 10/14/2014 - 04:13 pm.

      Just change the tin foil hats

      Republicans surely must have worn holes in their old hats by now.

    • Submitted by Kurt Nelson on 10/14/2014 - 04:19 pm.

      You might want to read it too

      Judge Posner does a nice job at completely taking apart, line by line of the lame arguments put out by those hell bent on exposing voter fraud – if it existed it would be a problem, but since it doesn’t exist, well it is a nice made up problem, nothing more. If you have actual proof, pony up, otherwise you start to look kind of needy.

      My favorite part of the dissent is here:

      “Despite the absence of evidence that voter impersonation fraud is an actual rather than an invented problem, whether in Wisconsin, or anywhere else in the United States…”
      “as there is no evidence that voter impersonation fraud is a problem, how can the fact that a legislature says it’s a problem turn it into one? if the Wisconsin legislature says witches are a problem shall Wisconsin Courts be permitted to conduct witch trials.”

    • Submitted by Bill Schletzer on 10/14/2014 - 04:38 pm.

      yes, there is a tender spot. Call it outrage.

      And that spot is hit every time a Republican tells an outright lie about “voter fraud”. The fact that Severson can go to a Republican rally and get everyone to agree that there is voter fraud only proves how gullible many Republican voters are, it does not prove fraud.

      Mr. Tester, voting is a fundamental right for all in our society who are of age and not felons in jail (or maybe other narrow exclusions for criminals). There is no requirement about a level of participation in society, because voting is the basic most fundamental level of participation.

      Since most Republicans claim to love the constitution, you should be aware of that.

      • Submitted by jason myron on 10/14/2014 - 05:11 pm.


        that was Swift, not Tester….easy mistake to make however. Tester has been MIA since August leaving Swift to keep the GOP myths alive for us.

        • Submitted by Bill Schletzer on 10/15/2014 - 08:23 am.

          Oops, my bad!

          I probably just fed some paranoid right-wing conspiracy theory. I’m surprised he didn’t bust me for “not having my facts straight.”

    • Submitted by Dan Hintz on 10/14/2014 - 04:53 pm.


      Even the people involved in Coleman’s campaign – the ones who litigated the recount – say there was no fraud. Severson is just a flat out liar and unfit for office.

  3. Submitted by jason myron on 10/14/2014 - 04:15 pm.

    LIke old and poor people, Swift?

    So Severson demands a solution for a non-existent problem that’s only alive in his own imagination? That’s the problem with these ideologues…they can’t fathom that they would ever lose an election. It’s interesting that you mention democracy in the same breath that you propose making it more difficult for people you despise to take part in it. It just illustrates the shallowness of your position.

  4. Submitted by Beth-Ann Bloom on 10/14/2014 - 04:48 pm.

    Easy choice

    All the more reason to support Steve Simon for Secretary of State. Minnesota will be well-served by a smart-principled man well-schooled in the complexity of election law and committing to make voting available to all as it should be in our democracy.

  5. Submitted by Robert Helland on 10/14/2014 - 05:03 pm.

    Seeking a sensible, independent alternative? Vote Bob Helland

    Disclaimer: I am Bob Helland, the endorsed IP candidate for SoS.

    I actually have experience in fighting fraud in my work for the executive branch of state government in both “fraud detection” and “fraud prevention”. That’s what this office needs, not unsubstantiated accusations nor dismissive partisan rhetoric. I agree with the majority of commenters here that voter impersonation is largely a manufactured crisis, not a cost-effective measure and would restrict persons’ eligibility or capacity to vote unduly.

    My priority in seeking the office is to improve the business services division (I am a former business registration expert for our Revenue Dept), provide independent oversight of elections administration, encourage citizen participation in civic processes, responsibly implement new technology solutions and educate the people of Minnesota about the actual constitutional and statutory role of the secretary of state.

    My priority is NOT to use a “bully pulpit” or to pretend I am a ‘super-legislator’ in a statewide constitutional office. This is not an authorized function of the role and leads to partisan politicization of a an executive office that should be nonpartisan in its execution. I can work with all types of people and I can make technology more useful; it’s that simple.

    For anyone who says my priorities are inconsistent with the office, please read Minnesota Constitution Article 3, Section 1 “Divisions of Powers”.

    For anyone that wants to see unbiased, unedited campaign information “in the candidates’ own words”, please view the videos I’ve compiled on (these include Messrs. Severson & Simon but not Bob Odden who presumably was not invited to participate as a minor party candidate).

    For anyone who is led to believe I am inexperienced for the role at 29 years of age, please send an email to and start a conversation to see for yourself (or view my website above).

    For anyone who wants real change in Minnesota politics and government, vote Bob Helland to be your next secretary of state and help me over the next 20 days to restore the integrity and full function of this office by spreading my message.

    Thanks for reading.

    (For an example of a real issue, despite a statutory authority to provide a Students’ Edition of the Legislative Manual in M.S. 5.09, this duty has been ignored for four years and our students and teachers suffer statewide with a lack of proper learning materials. I am not OK with this, are you?

    ~Bob Helland
    for Minnesota Secretary of State

  6. Submitted by THOMAS REYNOLDS on 10/14/2014 - 06:05 pm.

    Partisan Politics

    The Secretary of State race is much more interesting, but I fail to understand why Simon couldn’t respond to Severson aspersions but Ken Martin did. Second why Bob Helland who is truly nonpartisan and a major party endorsed candidate for Secretary of State has been consistently overlooked. Maybe it’s time for Doug Grow to do a little coverage of Bob Helland.

  7. Submitted by Ray Schoch on 10/14/2014 - 07:21 pm.

    We’ve been here before

    Neither Mr. Severson nor Mr. Swift have any credibility regarding the allegation of voter fraud.

    As was laid out in exhaustive detail here on MinnPost when voter I.D. was a statewide issue in the last election cycle, there simply isn’t any meaningful voter fraud in Minnesota, nor has there been. To “prove” his allegations, Mr. Swift was quoting (and directing readers to) a right-wing website that was filled with lots of innuendo, but was, to phrase it delicately, fact-free. The Coleman campaign itself, as Dan Hintz has pointed out, has said there was no fraud involved in Franken’s election. The very few questionable ballots amounted to a fraction of a percent that started with a pair of zeroes after the decimal point – almost literally a handful, out of more than 2 million votes cast.

    This is a non-issue, and by trying to turn it into one, Mr. Severson just eliminated himself from consideration for this office.

  8. Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/15/2014 - 08:02 am.

    Denial! Outrage! Tears!Me

    Denial! Outrage! Tears!

    Me thinks the leftists protest too much.

    In 2010, 32 people were charged with felony voter fraud in Minnesota. That, after a conservative group, with no subpoena or law enforcement investigative powers did some digging.

    It’s simple enough to hold one’s hand to forehead, scan the horizon and declare “Nope, no fraud here.”, but with elections being decided by a couple hundred votes, the voters deserve more.

    As SOS, Dan Severson will provide that security as well as safeguarding the franchise of our military service members…you know, the people out there with their lives on the line.

    • Submitted by Bill Schletzer on 10/15/2014 - 08:36 am.

      while denying the franchise….

      to homeless vets and others because he is afraid of how they will vote. I was in the military and voted from Germany in 1968 with no problem. Why should military be excluded from all the rules you want to impose just because they are in the military.

      As someone who was ” out there with their lives on the line” in Viet Nam, I was defending the right of all Americans, whether I agreed with them or not or approved of their lifestyles, to vote. To pass a law that catches 10 people tried to vote illegally but that denies the vote to thousands is immoral from where I stand.

      Those 32 votes wouldn’t have decided that election even by your math but had you denied thousands of Democratic voters their right to vote you could have changed the results of that election. That is the fact that bothers you and Severson and the rest of the Republicans who support voter suppression.

      • Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/15/2014 - 10:48 am.

        I’m not suggesting the military be excluded from any proposed rule. I just want their legally cast votes counted.

        Those 32 cases of voter fraud are the result of the most cursory investigation by private citizens. Franken was seated in the Senate by 215 votes. To the millions that watched Franken’s “march to the sea” with horror, your protestations ring very hollow in the light of those facts.

    • Submitted by Kurt Nelson on 10/15/2014 - 08:38 am.


      Being charged and being convicted are two different things. And why would someone risk a felony to vote Republican anyway – seems a high price to pay for such a low payout action (no election is ever won by one vote).

    • Submitted by Dan Hintz on 10/15/2014 - 01:17 pm.


      The 32 charged were (allegedly) felons trying to vote. Voter ID would have done nothing to stop them. While in the legislature, Severson voted against legislation that would educate felons on their voting rights, which might have prevented this. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is not trying to disenfranchise voters, but is just incompetent and doesn’t understand the job he is running for.

      As far as military voting, Severson has a proven record of trying to make it harder for active military members to vote by opposing moving the primary up. A vote for Severson is a vote to disrespect our military service members – the people on there with their lives on the line. If you care about the franchise of our military service members, you need to defeat Dan Severson.

    • Submitted by jason myron on 10/15/2014 - 03:03 pm.

      As for Severson being elected SOS

      Severson will be SOL, Swift. Funny…the only actually documented cases of voter fraud recently have been a guy in Wisconsin on thirteen counts for voting for Walker and the Indiana Secretary of State…another Republican. It’s doesn’t seem that you actually care about voter fraud…as long as they vote for the right guy, correct? Talk about denial , outrage and tears? I thought you were channeling election night 2012 again.

  9. Submitted by richard owens on 10/15/2014 - 09:09 am.

    Is this the study you reference, Mr. Swift?

    [from the study]

    “…Based on the survey results, the only type of conviction was due to felons voting (26 convictions) or felons registering to vote (12 convictions). Because about a third of people convicted did not vote, we must use 26 (the number of people who voted who were
    convicted) to determine the percent of the total 2008 voting population who have been convicted of fraudulent voting. Based on the survey, nine ten-thousandths of one percent (0.0009%) of 2008 voters were convicted of fraud….”

    The study does reveal some factual characteristics of our voting system in MN, and for that reason alone I suggest conspiracy-minded folks receive some treatment by studying the actual results.

    Anecdotally I know of two voting cases in one county, a student voted twice and was caught, and a 90-something year old woman also voted by absentee and then her daughter took her to the polls. INTENT (according to the article) determines if the votes are “illegal” or “fraudulent”. You make it sound like they are all “felony” fraud. THEY ARE NOT.

    Mr. Swift, I wonder if your Republican crusade isn’t intentionally undermining the confidence Minnesotans have in their elections for political advantage. Much like the ad hominem politics of personal destruction, your tactics seem nefarious and destructive to a free people’s most basic civics act.

    If winning is more important to you than our democracy, your party is simply a power-seeking cabal with no redeeming purpose.

    Would it kill Republicans to be honest and seek positive changes to improve our system instead of all the constant accusations, smears and disrespectful attacks on opponents?

    I think so.

    • Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/15/2014 - 01:26 pm.

      Richard, again, those convictions were accomplished through the efforts of private citizens, with no police powers of investigation. They were forced to act because the Secretary of State refused to even look into the matter. In fact he’ll leave office with that cloud hanging still over his head.

      So, while leftists continue to claim “there is no fraud”, we know there is; we just don’t know how much. And for every vote that is fraudulently cast, there is a entitled voter who is denied his or her franchise.

      My tactic is to point out that unless our franchise is protected, our vote is worthless – and, despite the protestations of people who feel this fraud benefits them, I intend to continue to do so.

      Thanks for your feedback.

  10. Submitted by Tommy Johnson on 10/15/2014 - 11:03 am.

    Norm Coleman’s recount attorney said….

    “There is no evidence of fraud in this election. And maybe it’s the law out there; maybe it’s the character of the people in Minnesota. We don’t have any fraud.”

    — Joe Friedberg, arguing before the Minnesota Supreme Court, 01 June 2009

    What conclusion can be drawn from Coleman’s atorney at the end of the recount process?

    Well, Severson, et al might conclude that Friedberg is some godless commie that hates the military, or – even worse! – that Friedberg is obviously a RINO…..

    • Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/15/2014 - 01:53 pm.

      Wow, RINO or no, I bet Joe was non-plussed when those fraud convictions were handed down…he probably isn’t happy to be reminded of his ill considered public statement.

  11. Submitted by Theo Kozel on 10/15/2014 - 11:57 am.

    Show the non-partisan evidence

    When a non-partisan organization comes up with evidence of voter fraud, we can talk.

    Otherwise the case is closed regarding whether voter fraud is a legitimate issue- all evidence resoundingly shows it is not. People who genuinely care about the Constitution and the American way of democracy would not drum up false allegations to weaken this core instution.

    • Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/15/2014 - 01:33 pm.

      Well there we are, Theo. It

      Well there we are, Theo.

      It shouldn’t be left to “non-partisan organizations” to protect the integrity of our elections; that’s the job of the Secretary of State. As you’ve just pointed out, Ritchie has not acted in the best interests of the citizens, and as a member of the same party we can conclude that Simon would continue that shameful attention to duty.

      Thanks for bringing that up. It was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.

      • Submitted by Theo Kozel on 10/15/2014 - 02:35 pm.

        You’re reaching, Mr, Swift, and grasping nothing but straws. It remains unarguably true that eroding faith in the vote when you have no solid evidence to justify your position is un-American in the truest sense of the term: it attacks a central, fundamental plank of our democracy that has been in place since our nation was founded.

  12. Submitted by Mike Downing on 10/15/2014 - 12:04 pm.

    Syverson focused on suppression of the military vote

    The DFL machine is excellent at misdirection and avoidance.

    Syverson focused on the suppression of the military vote. Obama, Soros and Ritchie made sure that absentee ballots were very slow at being mailed out thereby ensuring they were mailed back after the deadline. The military vote is typically 75-90% for the GOP.

    Syverson will make sure active military votes will be counted!!

    • Submitted by Jonathan Ecklund on 10/15/2014 - 02:00 pm.


      You got a cite for your “75-90%” claim?

    • Submitted by Matt Haas on 10/15/2014 - 04:24 pm.

      Why yes

      They’re like superheros, the amazing duo of Barry and George. Question, do they wear costumes as they flit about the countryside, flipping elections for the Dems with their dastardly absentee vote negating powers? Because that would be cool.

      • Submitted by jason myron on 10/15/2014 - 04:41 pm.

        I thought Obama did that from the Oval Office, Matt.

        Isn’t the switch right next to the one where he changes gas prices right before the election? It must be true…Hannity said so.

    • Submitted by Dan Hintz on 10/15/2014 - 04:51 pm.

      Facts are your friends

      There is no way to acurately track military voting patterns, but surveys have shown that while the officers tend to vote Republican (though at nowhere near 75 to 90 percent) enlisted men and women lean Democratic.

      The biggest problem with military voting – according to the military – is the timing for absentee ballots. That’s why moving the primary from September to August was so important. By supporting that change, the DFL was standing up for active military personnel, while ‘Dan Severson in voting against that change, was screwing over our active military.

      To recap: military does not vote overwhelmingly Republican, DFL is pro-miliary voting, Severson is anti-military voting. Thanks for playing.

  13. Submitted by Eric Snyder on 10/15/2014 - 12:45 pm.

    A ‘virtually non-existent’ problem

    This was the conclusion of research reported here:

    The voting fraud myth refuses to die, likely for the same reasons behind other right-wing conspiracies, like climate change being a hoax, or evolution being a hoax, or same sex marriage being part of some communist plot, etc.

    It doesn’t help the Republicans’ case when, in the alleged attempt to prevent a problem that almost doesn’t exist, they then start closing down polls early, eliminated early voting, and use other measures clearly designed to suppress voting.

  14. Submitted by Tom Lehman on 10/15/2014 - 01:35 pm.

    Keeping Seniors from Voting?

    Thomas Swift apparently supports keeping people “who don’t even participate enough in society to have a valid ID” from voting. He’s talking about people like my Mother. At 94, living in a nursing home and nearly blind, her driver’s license and passport lapsed. She had no government-issued photo ID. Does this mean she and other seniors shouldn’t be allowed to vote? While Swift and others who support new barriers to voting (Mr. Severson?) might agree, I don’t. How many Americans have died defending democracy against dictatorships on the Right and the Left? Too many. So it’s understandably troubling to now have a veteran seeking to oversee all elections in Minnesota being supported by those who dishonor the deaths of U.S. soldiers by suggesting that certain people, like my mother, should not be allowed to vote because they “don’t even participate enough in society to have a valid ID.” My mother participated in our society for 94 years and people like her should not be barred from voting. Shame on anyone who thinks otherwise.

    • Submitted by Thomas Swift on 10/15/2014 - 01:50 pm.

      Your mom should certainly be able to vote Tom.

      Folks of an age your mom has reached are dependent on others to help keep them engaged, of course. It’s certainly no fault of her own that her ID has lapsed.

      If you’re too tied up to help her get registered, I can put you in touch with some folks who’d be happy to help. Best wishes to her.

  15. Submitted by Tommy Johnson on 10/15/2014 - 02:59 pm.

    It’s pretty obvious…

    … that the good ol’ USofA is a center-left nation. Because if we were a center-right nation, right wingers would be doing everything they could to INCREASE voter participation, instead of doing everything they can to suppress voter participation.

  16. Submitted by Mike Downing on 10/15/2014 - 07:21 pm.

    Are commentators just ignorant of other countries?

    Name a developed country other than the U.S. that does not require a photo ID to vote. (crickets, crickets and more crickets).

    Even 3rd world countries require photo IDs to vote!

    Are you all saying minorities, liberals and Democrats are too dumb or too lazy to get a photo ID? Shame on you!!

    • Submitted by Theo Kozel on 10/15/2014 - 11:03 pm.

      Actually, pretty much all developed countries do not require a photo ID-

    • Submitted by Eric Snyder on 10/16/2014 - 09:41 am.

      Your argument

      Suggests that a course of action is right merely on the basis that others are doing it. This is hardly sufficient, don’t you think?

    • Submitted by Dan Hintz on 10/16/2014 - 10:51 pm.

      You are the ignorant one

      Name a developed country that does not require photo ID? Ok, Australia. Denmark. Great Britain. That took all of 30 seconds on Google to find.

      Did you spend any time or make any effort trying to determine if what you said was true? Or does the truth not matter to you?

      The worst part is that you had the gall to call others ignorant, when your comment was the ignorant one. You owe everyone here an apology. Shame on you, Mike Downing.

    • Submitted by Todd Hintz on 10/20/2014 - 05:01 pm.

      Voter IDs

      The way many countries get voter IDs into people’s hands is to issue a national ID card. That spells out who you are, what your benefits are, your status, and so on. Can you imagine that outcry we would have here in the United States if the government even proposed, let alone implemented, a national ID? People would be peeing themselves in fear of Big Brother coming in to track their every move.

      Now if you’re really serious about preventing potential voter fraud, Secretary of State Mark Ritchie has proposed a solution that does not have all the issues associated with an ID: electronic polling books. Instead of the paper books we have now, get an electronic version that lists people’s name, address, voting eligibility, and picture. No need to worry about a lost ID, a fake ID, or getting paperwork to prove who you are. It’s all kept and managed by the state rather than in the hands of someone who may lose their purse or wallet.

  17. Submitted by jason myron on 10/17/2014 - 03:50 pm.


    that Mr. Downing cites 3rd world countries for the US to emulate when all I hear from the right are admonitions that Obama is turning America into one

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