A bird flying over the Three Mile Island Nuclear power plant in Goldsboro, Pennsylvania.
A bird flying over the Three Mile Island Nuclear power plant in Goldsboro, Pennsylvania. Credit: REUTERS/Carlo Allegri

There is no more important, nor more urgent, environmental issue facing humanity than the climate crisis. If we don’t address it with far more urgency than we have, nothing else will matter to our children’s children. Nothing.

Proponents of new nuclear power generation claim that advanced nuclear power can be part of the solution to addressing climate. However, nuclear proponents may once again be promising more than they can deliver.

Supposing there is a new nuclear technology that addresses the incredibly high costs of new nuclear generation, addresses the radioactive waste problem and that avoids risks from terrorism and potential meltdowns. Supposing there is a breakthrough, and that technology became available tomorrow morning, how quickly would they start generating power?

Given the history of nuclear plant construction, it’s hard to believe any reactor could be permitted, constructed, and in operation in less than 15 years. In climate mitigation, that’s too late.

Decades ago, proponents claimed nuclear power would deliver electricity “too cheap to meter.” That never happened. Nuclear power has become more expensive and next generation nuclear plants have been consistently cancelled.  Over 40 planned reactors have been cancelled in the U.S. in the past 50 years, almost always because of cost, despite the federal government’s huge subsidy in underwriting insurance for catastrophic meltdowns in the Price-Anderson Act.

In 2017, South Carolina Gas & Electric’s residential customers were paying 18 percent of their electric bills to finance two new reactors, when the project was cancelled – after $9 billion had already been spent, due to delays and rising costs. Minnesota electric ratepayers were among the first in the country to end up paying for a never-finished nuclear plant – a long-forgotten project in Wisconsin that cost $103 million before it was abandoned in 1974.

New technologies might bring down the costs and speed up construction, but after decades of nuclear promises that didn’t pan out, the old adage, “I’ll believe it when I see it,” might be appropriate here. Nuclear power is getting more expensive, not less, over time.

Addressing the climate crisis requires enormous, extremely challenging, changes in our economy. We need to build out renewable energy sources that work – like wind and solar (which have become less expensive over time) – coupled with energy storage technologies. We need to electrify transportation, heating and cooling, and industrial sectors of the economy. Also, energy efficiency, including retrofitting residential housing and all buildings, and converting our agricultural system to store carbon in the soil instead of adding to greenhouse gas emissions. These are concrete steps we must make.

During the transition, prematurely shutting down existing nuclear plants instead of coal and other fossil fuel generation – something Germany did several years ago – is not a good trade-off. Continued operation of existing nuclear reactors is better for climate than coal or gas power plants.

Contrary to claims of nuclear moratorium opponents, the moratorium does not hinder discussion of new nuclear technologies. In Minnesota, the people who talk the most about nuclear power repeatedly claim that the moratorium prevents them “from even discussing it.” Their own words belie their claim.

Xcel Energy, the one Minnesota utility with experience operating nuclear reactors has expressed interest in continuing operation of its Monticello reactor but has not proposed any new ones. Xcel has plenty of political clout at the Capitol but has not made a significant attempt to repeal the moratorium. They are phasing out coal and gas plants but recognize that new reactors couldn’t be constructed fast enough to speed up the phase-out of fossil fuels.

State Sen. John Marty
[image_caption]State Sen. John Marty[/image_caption]
Nuclear researchers, engineers, and businesses continue their work whether there is a moratorium or not. Small modular reactors? Advanced nuclear technologies? Perhaps they will come up with a less expensive, safe technology that doesn’t add to our waste problems and doesn’t require decades to construct. I would welcome such news. But don’t hold your breath waiting.

This year, in response to an attempt to repeal the moratorium, I offered an amendment to require any new nuclear plants be financed the way other power plants are – by the utilities, who are compensated by ratepayers when they are completed and generating electricity. My rate-payer protection amendment was defeated. Nuclear proponents don’t want to admit it, but nuclear reactors are so expensive and so prone to massive cost-overruns, that utility investors are not willing to take the risk.

When investors are willing to bear the risk of nuclear power, perhaps we can believe their statements about how new reactors are part of the climate solution. Until then, we would be wise to use existing reactors until we are able to eliminate all fossil fuel plants and complete the transition to renewable power. Minnesota’s nuclear moratorium doesn’t interfere with any of that.

Viewing some long promised, but not yet viable, nuclear technology as a panacea, gives people an excuse to avoid taking real action to address climate. If 30 years from now they develop some new nuclear technology that makes sense, that’s great. But if we count on new reactors to help address climate – the earth is cooked by then.

Sen. John Marty (DFL-Roseville) is former chair of the Senate Energy and Environment Committee and an author of Minnesota’s nuclear moratorium.

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54 Comments

  1. Every word Marty said about nuclear power can be said about “green” energy, it is not ready yet. You can not power major metropolitan areas with just renewable energy. A few folks here at Minnpost tried peddling cities that were 100% green, unfortunately for them that wasn’t the case (cities used oil and gas for heat). Twin Cities could use more hydro power to help wind/solar but is way too cold go totally “green”. Hell folks, even the “100% electric green buses” burn natural gas to heat them… I find that funny…

    1. “… A few folks here at Minnpost tried peddling cities that were 100% green, unfortunately for them that wasn’t the case (cities used oil and gas for heat).”

      This sentence doesn’t make sense.

      The rest of what you say is obviously untrue, and worse, it seeks to remove focus on Sen Marty’s clear-eyed view of nuclear power as a panacea to mitigate the climate emergency.

      Hyperbole and passion shouldn’t substitute for honesty in comments.

      1. Richard, do “green” buses use natural gas to heat them, yes or no? Name a cold weather city that is 100% renewable energy powered, I will be interested in that one. Why do you think Democratic run state and cities are not already 100% renewable now, if it is truly ready? The answer is simple, just like (according to the author, not sure I agree) nuclear energy is not ready, renewables are not ready either….. As a matter of fact, not close to being ready.
        The “pie in the sky” Democratic view of green energy is only a fantasy right now. For the foreseeable future, we need need coal, gas fueled energy. Might as well get used to it and try to bring down costs for consumers rather than increase costs as we are currently doing.

    2. Just a couple of weeks ago, California met 100% of the states energy needs for that day with renewables – wind, solar and likely hydro. Remind me, Is LA for instance, a big city?

      Then, a few weeks ago a group of scientists at I believe UCLA were able to generate solar energy at night. Whoda thunk.

      1. Kurt, LA uses 25% of renewable energy as of today. As I said, going totally green is a liberal pipe dream in 2022. For the foreseeable future oil and gas will be needed to power cities, might as well make it affordable. Not sure where folks get the idea that renewables are at a stage where they can support major metropolitan areas.

  2. Amen to Senator Marty, and especially to the sentence in the column that became the subhead for it. “Viewing some long promised, but not yet viable, nuclear technology as a panacea, gives people an excuse to avoid taking real action to address climate” seems too, too true. Since continued use of fossil fuels will make the planet uninhabitable – half a dozen dystopian science-fiction movies have already graphically illustrated that result over the past couple of decades – I look forward (without holding my breath waiting for them) to Joe Smith’s suggestions for alternatives to either nuclear or “green” energy. I confess I don’t have any – nuclear is criminally expensive and long-term dangerous, and I agree that “green” energy is not (yet) capable of taking on the entire load.

  3. First line: “There is no more important, nor more urgent, environmental issue facing humanity than the climate crisis.”

    OMG, Mr. Marty. Not the deforestation of equatorial rain forests? At the current rate these will be gone in 50 years, and there’s no getting them back. Wouldn’t you call that just a little more important, a little more urgent? How about marine pollution, which could trigger an unstoppable death spiral at any time? This ecological catastrophe would destroy us today, not tomorrow. I could list more, but let’s just say there’s easily four or five environmental issues that are far more important than global warming.

    1. I’m delighted you care about those two important environmental problems, but neither are as critical as substantially reducing CO2 emissions in the next two decades.

      The rain forests are sensitive to global warming and are being heavily damaged by the extreme droughts that climate change is already producing. Since climate change will be irreversible far sooner than 50 years from now, they will be killed off by that sooner than deforestation. And, of course, they are also under the jurisdiction of other nations, so it’s more difficult for the US to intervene directly to stop their being wantonly cut down by extractionary capitalist interests.

      Ditto the future of marine biology. The chief danger to ocean species is the quickly warming waters and the acidification of the oceans, both the result of CO2 emissions, again. So there’s nothing more important for saving ocean life than halting global warming. Why don’t you tell us the particular pollutant that is about to “trigger an unstoppable deathspirals, and who are the chief polluters. Or is this the same concern about nation’s other than the US? And where’s the UN report on the issue?

      I’m sure you know there’s not much Sen. Marty can do about either issue you raise, while he can do something about combating CO2 emissionsin MN. I suspect that’s part of your objection to his calling global warming the chief ecological crises facing mankind, an objection which strikes me as mere contrarianism. I myself would forgo the qualifier and declare it the greatest crises we face ..

      1. “Since climate change will be irreversible far sooner than 50 years from now, they will be killed off by that sooner than deforestation.” Not true. When rain forests are killed off by global warming is conjecture. When they are killed off by current rates of deforestation is fact.

    2. Leave aside that your objection is merely a quibble in response to an article entirely discussing the efficacy of nuclear power in solving the climate crisis.

      Or is your point that Marty should therefore cease working to obtain the best electricity regime for addressing global warming because the Brazilian rightwing is cutting down the Amazon at an alarming pace?

      1. I took exception to his first sentence, endlessly repeated everywhere, which is untrue.

        1. The first sentence to which you take such exception is an informed opinion, which you have not remotely demonstrated to be “untrue”. You have no assurance that current rates of deforestation will continue unabated, so your 50 year figure is also ultimately speculative.

          And as I said below, since saving the rain forests is part and parcel an essential component of stopping global warming, it makes no sense to say that one crisis is less important than the other.

          Of course, left unsaid by you as part of your quibble is what precisely Sen Marty should be doing about saving the earth’s rain forests, even if he agreed with your opinion on the subject.

  4. Climate crisis? How many decades has that been said with so many doomsayers giving specific dates?
    This is just more of the same garbage. It has never been 100% proven that fossil fuels contribute to global warming.
    Should we try go to cleaner energy? Sure, but not at the expense of everyone.
    Nuclear energy is cost effective if you make it as such. But this politician and his party can’t have it both ways as they are doing right now. Don’t jack up the costs of a company running or wanting nuclear power and then say we aren’t doing it because it’s too expensive.
    Why should we listen to this guy and his Democrat party? Everything they try to solve just skyrockets the price. Education? Ever more and more money. Health care? Gee, that went through the roof with a lot of pain suffered by everyone. Energy? Gee, look at the gas pump and our home energy prices that affects everyone.

    1. The world’s climate scientists have a decades-long settled consensus that the principal cause of the current warming of the earth is the burning of fossil fuel by humans. That is the state of the science on the issue.

      If anyone is telling you differently they are either massively ignorant or dispensing anti-scientific “conservative”propaganda. After fossil fuels, deforestation by humans is the next important cause.

      I’ll ignore your bias against the Democratic party on healthcare costs (rising for decades for a wide variety of reasons) and needful safety regulations on nuclear power (which have been in effect for 50+ years under both Dem and Repub administrations.)

      But the price of gas has been fairly stable during the course of the 21st Century, after having been very low during the Democrat Clinton administration. The rise in gas prices now is worldwide and is the result of both increased demand after the pandemic and Putin the Terrible’s war of annihilation against Ukraine, neither of which were caused by Dems.

      1. The price of gas IS NOT STABLE now… That is 100% certain. Policies like stopping Keystone, stopping drilling on Federal land, making it harder to get permits, all Biden ideas, raise the price of heating your home.

        1. As we have informed you time and time again, none of those claimed policies, even in your hyperbolic format, would have had the slightest effect on the recent increase in oil prices as the world’s economies emerged from the pandemic. And this ignores the three month old energy shock of Putin’s war of annihilation.

          Further, you have been told time and time again that pipelines only carry oil, they don’t manufacture it. And there’s nothing stopping the Canadians from building a pipeline for their tar sands oil. The fact is they dont want to do it, either.

          People seem to forget that the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 occurred when the US still had an abundance of cheap, easy to access oil in known fields. We weren’t able to quickly produce our way out of that supply disruption either, indeed since the embargo kicked off the phenomenon known as the Great Inflation, I’d say we never did, even with all the subsequent efforts to increase domestic production.

          What is going on now is that Saudi Arabia has decided that it wants to aid the re-election of Trumpite Repub forces. It is thus making every effort to reduce its supply and OPEC’s. It has decided that the best thing it can do as a backward monarchy is to aid the reactionary forces curerently at work in the US. So it is now going to use its oil to influence American elections, that is becoming rather clear, it seems to me.

          Anyway, Joe, all of the above has more to do with increasing energy prices than anything your “conservative” news sources are telling you. The best advice has been the same since the 1970s: don’t buy a gas guzzler and get rid of yours if you have one. Conserve energy; that’s the only answer long term.

  5. More foot stomping whiners from the left and the right. Demanding that the only way to win is for the other guy to lose.

    The future is hydro + wind + solar + nuclear, paired with battery / storage advancements. Demanding one over the other is short sighted political gamesmanship, just like the CAE suggesting that coal and gas are the way forward.

    Again, repeat after me:

    The future is hydro + wind + solar + nuclear, paired with battery / storage advancements.

    1. Exactly. I can think of no example where a proponent of nuclear said that it must be implemented at the detriment of other green technologies, let alone claimed it was the panacea. No one that I can think of is saying “stop! Don’t develop/implement solar energy! We are busy developing safer nuclear energy.” On the contrary, it’s people like Marty saying “stop! Don’t look for additional solutions! We’re busy ragging on everyone to implement the ones we have while we continue to burn fossil fuels.” Nuclear energy MUST be one of the solutions if we’re going to be successful. Yes, we should implement as much of what we already have as possible. But solar, geothermal, hydro, and wind are unlikely to keep up with the demand for energy as the population grows. Like it or not, even if the population stayed the same (though no one with any morals has figured out how to ethically stop or decrease the human population), pulling the poorest out of poverty is going to require more energy use. And if that energy is to be clean energy, then we need MORE energy. If we don’t develop nuclear (and quit living decades in the past about the mistakes we made rather than moving forward and finding safer solutions) we’re going to FAIL. Not in the lifetimes of anyone posting here. But why bother with any of this if it’s only about us?

    2. Each of these produces their own emissions/pollutants/environmental degradation. How about using less (driving slower, turning off lights), consuming less (smaller houses, fewer cars), destroying less (mining, eating meat).

      We are never given these options. Wonder why. Could it be because giant industries feed “answers” to applauding partisans? You are all being played like a xylophone.

      1. You seem to be unaware that the American progressive movement pretty much endorses every single one of those energy conservation proposals, as far as I can tell.

        Perhaps you should think about joining we partisans of the left, Audrey; glad to have you on board!

        1. Yes, Progressives are endorsing those things. Not. Are they advocating for a vegan diet? Are they demanding our legislators enact a 55 mph limit? Are they insisting we sell our second cars and cut our lights at night? No, no, and no.

          1. Lol. Who do you think is advocating for a vegan diet? The PETA rightwingers? Your response is frankly comic.

            I’d go so far as to say virtually every energy conservation proposal ever made has come from the American left, certainly since the onset of the disastrous Conservative Era (1989-20?0), whose very initial motivation revolved around opposition to energy conservation, as well as all environmental conservation.

            I’m sensing some serious cognitive dissonance here, ma’am…

            1. And yet the Left promotes none of this. Why? Because both sides are in the back pocket of big industry.

          2. Why would they advocate an unnatural vegan diet that not only pretends human beings are biologically herbivorous, when they’re not, but massively increases the carbon footprint of agriculture, moreso than even the dastardly meat production it attempts to replace. We liberals believe in science, not new age woo.

            1. “an unnatural vegan diet that not only pretends human beings are biologically herbivorous, when they’re not” Sorry, but we have the same guts as all great apes, who are almost entirely herbivores.

              “but massively increases the carbon footprint of agriculture,” False. Converting land from animal feed and livestock production will massively reduce our carbon footprint.

              “We liberals believe in science” Liberals believe whatever their overlords tell them. Evidently.

    3. Your comment is just an opinion too, no?

      MEANWHILE: When can the casks of spent fuel get moved from the Prairie Island plant?

      How much will Japanese thyroid cancer victims collect?

      Why are the nuclear plants under construction over time and over budget so badly they are being abandoned?

      Maybe more study should come from all of us commenters. Some don’t even believe the accepted, basic knowledge of climate crises, energy reality and the future.

      Just an opinion.

      1. And beyond opinion are the proven facts being demonstrated by next generation nuclear technology efforts. Like Bill Gates’ TerraPower with technologies like Molten Salt Reactors ( https://www.terrapower.com/ ). A funny aside: I had never heard of a molten salt reactor until a few years ago when it was mentioned by a commenter I viewed as a right wing kook. Yeah sure, I thought, I’m going to listen to you? I used the Google it to debunk his claims and sure enough: HE HAD A GOOD POINT!

        Hydro, progress on more efficient wind and solar power generation, improvements in battery storage, conservation practices (notably opposed by most conservatives) AND safe, scalable nuclear power are how fossil fuels will be reduced to near zero.

        1. The Oak Ridge molten salt reactor is not new, and may have some utility.
          [Google] “What is the problem with molten salt reactors?
          Another basic problem with MSRs is that the materials used to manufacture the various reactor components will be exposed to hot salts that are chemically corrosive, while being bombarded by radioactive particles. So far, there is no material that can perform satisfactorily in such an environment.Sep 14, 2021”

          Small distributed reactors have attracted research efforts also, but now seem to be even dirtier than our 50-year-old plants like Prairie Island.

          Some scientists have claimed America has enough spent fuel to power us 100% for 100 years.

          All of these hold promise, but as Sen Marty tried to point out, and seeming to underscore that fact, today’s news says we have just reached maximum CO2 of all human history.

          Marty is just saying nuclear cannot work fast enough. We will not be able to turn back the laws of physics and entropy of earth itself. The behavior of the population seems to indicate some big change is in the air.

          The idea that nothing is off the table might also be “off the table”.

          It doesn’t look good. Pres Biden going to Saudi Arabia hat in hand and Russia destroying the global economy signals our logical desperation.
          Just MHO

  6. I am going to respectfully disagree with the author Senator Marty. I have been reading a lot of German news from their papers. Germany and some other countries are or will be in a major heating crisis (with some premature deaths) and some very real misery….. They are transitioning away from Putin’s Russian gas fields and may be buying product from Canada and other western countries. They have moved up the timeline on some conservation measures. These may be all well and good but there is also some local pushback against green energy from rural areas….A lot of this has been catalyzed by the too soon shutdown of older nuclear plants. But to your credit finding Uranium has become more expensive and perhaps more importantly it may be past its peak in supply. Very real, very complex problems. But thanks as a friend, ally and not an enemy.

  7. One can only imagine how long the permitting process would take to build a new plant in Minnesota where groups can claim they are representing disenfranchised water lilies and rice.

  8. Sen. Marty sure seems to be distracted by nuclear energy. As he says, though, we need to focus on the things we know we have to do; the “enormous, extremely challenging changes in our economy.”

    For instance, it appears that in order to approach net-zero carbon and methane emissions, every single building is going to have to be “deeply retrofitted” or bulldozed and replaced.

    I live in a charming old neighborhood that hasn’t changed very much in the last 30 years, but it will have to change a whole lot in the next twenty. We can no longer afford to fetishize our leaky old houses. We have to look at them with a hard, practical eye. We have to accept that our neighborhoods will look different and be different very soon.

    But most of all, we need to focus on building lots of stuff: lots of new, efficient housing, lots of new electric power generation and transmission infrastructure, and lots of legal and financial infrastructure to facilitate it. This will require tearing down some stuff and removing a lot of legal barriers.

    I’m agnostic about the next generation of nuclear power generation, but I’m very skeptical of any politician who seems more focused on stopping new stuff than on building it.

  9. “There is no more important, nor more urgent, environmental issue facing humanity than the climate crisis.” For some of the previous commenters, the climate crisis is not exclusive of other environmental crises, like the deforestation of equatorial rain forests. The problem with deforestation of equatorial rain forests (and other arboreal forests) is that they destroy the planet’s capacity for processing CO2 back to oxygen. Deforestation of the rain forests is linked to animal husbandry and the overproduction of animal products. Cattle (for meat of dairy) emit methane gases which further drive global warming and climate change. So, it’s not just fossil fuels. Climate change response also means responding to the water crisis and even the farming crisis created by the proliferation of factory farms and monoculture which are dependent upon petroleum and fossil fuel based fertilizer.

    Fossil fuels are singled out by lawmakers and policymakers (other than the climate change denying Republicans) because of efficacy of reducing CO2 emissions such as coal and oil burning electric generating plants. Climate experts have told us that the Earth can sustain at most 350 ppm of CO2 emission. It’s only relatively recently that CO2 emissions exceeded that limit. The problem is that these emissions have been growing more and more every year making it more difficult to return to the 350 ppm level. The longer humans postpone taking action to limit and reduce emissions, the harder if will be to ever return. Some scientists believe we’ve already gone beyond the “tipping point” where effects of climate change create a new dynamic.

    I don’t know what “proof” it will take to convince deniers of the immediacy and gravity of this crisis. Most, if not all, of those experts who tried to explain the disappearance of the polar ice caps and the breakdown of the glaciers by volcanoes or other “natural” historic change have changed their minds. We have no time to waste by quibbling over the existence of the climate crisis much less its seriousness. I agree with Senator Marty that whatever hope might exist from nuclear power, the promises of delivery on such hope are too speculative and remote to form a basis for public policy today.

    1. Thanks for this wonderful comment, Jon. I neglected to mention in my response to Audrey above that one of the two principal reasons for halting the destruction of the rain forests is that they themselves are a critical component in the effort to halt global warming. They suck up the CO2!

      Thus it is incoherent to argue that reducing deforestation is a “more critical” concern than global warming itself, since the two crises are intimately related. Both problems must be addressed immediately.

      1. That’s my point. In fifty years we might be able to move the climate needle a degree or two. By that time forests will be gone. You tell me which is more important.

        1. What you fail to understand is that there is an overwhelming consensus of climate scientists that if we continue on the present inadequate path on reining in emissions, the irreversible tipping point will likely occur in the next decade or so, and certainly far sooner than 50 years out.

          Since needing to do something within 10 years is much sooner than 50, I think you can guess the correct answer to your question.

          1. Cite the “overwhelming consensus” we’re ten years away from doom, because there’s nothing of the sort on the internet.

          2. There is no “overwhelming consensus” on when, how, or what will happen with climate change. However, there is an absolute consensus on what will happen at current rates of deforestation in equatorial forests.

            1. Deforestation of the rain forests is a serious problem. Climate science takes destruction of the rain forests into account in determining the role of humans in causing climate change. The problem in terms of any “action plan” is that most of the rain forests are in other countries and continents like South America and Africa. There’s not as much the US can do as a country in terms of policy action to prevent this destruction. The most effective action that US can take is to curb carbon dioxide and methane emissions from fossil fuels and other industries in the US . The US can also encourage other nations where the rain forests actually exist to stop such destruction. There’s no mutual exclusivity in terms of taking action.

            2. I wrote a lengthy reply that failed to emerge from moderation.

              I won’t waste my time again, other than to observe your Google apparently is programmed to ignore the last two reports of the UN IPCC from Aug 2021 and April 2022, which make crystal clear that the hundreds of scientists that are involved in preparing them have advised the world’s governments in no uncertain terms that if CO2 emissions are not substantially reduced before 2030, the world has no realistic hope of limiting the warming to 1.5C, the threshold for whether the earth’s climate remains recognizable to humans.

  10. The problem with renewables as has been pointed out is that they are 100% unreliable and always will be. Storage technology is promising but it is probably as far away as modular nuclear. Storage is being used to be sure but not on the scale that Marty’s proposal would require. Transportation electrification is an understandable ask but not feasible in much of Northern Minnesota during parts of the year. So the problem is that while Sen. Marty rightly calls out how far off new nuclear might be and claims its too expensive (without really backing that up and ignoring that current plants are very cost effective), he does call out the real truth of just how expensive renewables are. He doesn’t factor in the scale that needs to be built out (including the overbuilding of capacity to try to get close to 100% reliable), plus the replacement costs, plus the extra capacity to make up for the low capacity factor of wind and solar. In the end, we need an all of the above solution that must include nuclear and everything else but policymakers need to be much more honest about the true costs of what they are advocating.

    1. If renewables were 100% unreliable, how do you explain the fact that a country like Germany relies upon renewables to supply 42% of its energy consumption?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany

      Minnesota and other States rely upon a growing percentage of renewable energy and storage and will come to do so more in the future as citizens come to realize the unavoidable necessity of doing so. It may be true that renewables may never come to supply 100% of our energy. I don’t know that it will be necessary to abandon fossil fuel generated energy entirely to reduce a worldwide output of carbon dioxide emissions to a constant 350 ppm which is the current goal for avoiding the threat of catastrophic climate change.

  11. Given the volatility of renewable energy sources in Minnesota, especially in winter, the amount of generation and storage capacity required to meet current energy needs from 100% renewable sources isn’t really tenable with todays technology. I presume Sen. Marty has been presented with the math underlying this fact, but chooses to ignore it. I don’t like the idea of more government subsidies to profit-generating energy monopolies, but the only currently viable alternatives to new nuclear capacity are drastic energy curtailment or strip-mining northern Minnesota (et al) for heavy elements to make more batteries (because the current available supplies cannot produce enough batteries to enable 100% renewable generation). Preventing catastrophic climate change requires honestly evaluating every option, not more continued short-sighted idealism.

  12. Well rolling blackouts are right around the corner. We have lost too much base load generation. We have stuck our head in the same relying on renewable resources that provide 10% of our power and is available 1/3 of the time. Brilliant.

  13. Always nice to hear from the nay-Sayers. OK which one of you folks want that spent Nuclear fuel in your back yard? Oh yeah, smog was just a figment of our imagination, along with water pollution etc. etc. etc. Nuclear waste Is the best kept (we don’t want to talk about it) probably on the planet. Fusion reaction has been under investigation for what 50-60-70 years give or take a few, promising, but not deliverable. No green isn’t 100% there yet, but surprise, ~ 15% of the US grid is renewable, there are folks around the world that still live W/O electricity and pull their carts with donkeys and horses, and go from point A to point A, by foot, camel, bicycle or burrow. Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes parts of the world still look like they did 250 BC talk about slow change, get a clue folks, suspect we could still be having this same discussion with folks of similar thought in 3000! But then again, you all have doctorates and 40 years experience in climate science, or is this one of those go to the local saloon to get your high blood pressure diagnosed exercises?

  14. We are a number of years away from practical battery storage. Also the skies are forecasted to be cloudier with the increased humidity. I am not sure we can build an efficint grid to get energy affordably from sunny western South Dakota.

    1. “We are a number of years away from practical battery storage.”

      Wrong:

      Still in its’ early stages, Tesla PowerWalls sold to date in the US equal the total output of US’s largest coal power generation plant. Seems practical to me…

  15. “the earth is cooked by then.”

    The pantheist and the earth worshiping left are pushing their “climate” agenda in spite of the science regarding outcomes and feasibility.

    1. Desiring to protect the earth’s 11,000 thousand year old stable climate and all the myriad ecosystems that rely on it (including humanity) doesn’t require one to “worship” the earth, Ron. (Not that this would be an undesirable attitude to take, as it would surely be a benefit to all the earth’s creatures and not just the conservative white males of America!)

      And the last part of your sentence is too cryptic even to understand, let alone respond to. But that of course is likely your intent!

    2. “in spite of the science regarding outcomes and feasibility” sure would be interested in the science behind your “outcomes and feasibility”!

    3. Is there a “science regarding feasibility and outcomes”? I’ve never heard of it.
      I also think there’s no such thing as a “pantheist and the earth worshiping left” except those on the right who promote the agenda of the fossil fuel industries of denying their role in causing climate change to protect those economic self-interests.

  16. My local electric utility will allow me to purchase “renewable” electricity at a higher cost than the regular kind. But renewable energy is cheaper to produce according to commenters here. Strange times indeed.

    It seems likely that new nuclear plants could be constructed in less than 15 years, but Operation Warp Speed did take a few liberties and serious commitment which is unlikely with our current Federal and State administrations.

  17. Folks, renewables are not even close to being able to totally power metropolitan areas. There are storage issues, there are on demand issues and wind farms/solar farms take big spaces. What you need for right now is affordable coal/gas fired plants. That is just the facts! Unfortunately you have an administration that doesn’t care about reality, they just want to push an agenda. When energy czar Granholm laughs and tells you get used to high gas prices, believe her! Some true believers still believe the ability to go completely green is there now, that is why they are true believers.

  18. I just have to marvel at the ability to ignore anything John Marty says. I think we we’ve had all of TWO new nuclear power plant come online in the US in the last 50 years and they take a minimum of 15 years to build even if broke ground today… yet people around here keep saying new nuclear HAS to be part of our energy grid? Marty is simply pointing out how unrealistic that is.

    Basic economics, cost and liability; have prevented new plants from being completed or constructed even where moratoriums have been lifted yet some people around here seem to think that we can wave a magic wand of some kind and have new reactors online next year. Even with the massive public subsidies that would be required to get new plant’s built within the next 20 years it’s not at all clear that this is a more realistic scenario than renewables and conservation. Sure… we’re going to start building something like 80 – 100 nuclear reactors next week and bring them ALL online in 15 years… doesn’t get more realistic than THAT.

    Meanwhile the variety, technology, efficiency, and cost of renewables is increasing at a fantastic rate. The claim that renewables are 100% unreliable is simply a false claim. We are bring renewable’s online this year and every year and can easily and economically accelerate that production long before new nuclear plants would come online 15, 20, or 30 years from now.

    As for Ms. Wicklow’s complaint that Marty’s priorities are askew… much the same way the pain in your left arm isn’t what kills you when you have a heart attack, the loss of forests isn’t driving the global climate crises, and it’s the global crises not the deforestation that threaten civilization as we know it. Even if we saved the forests at this point climate change would still ravage the planet. And new nuclear power reactors aren’t going to save the forests anyways so I’m not sure even what the point is? Marty’s priorities are inclusive, they include saving forests, Wicklow’s exclusive.

    The goofiest complaint about Marty in this thread is the claim that no one is saying we can’t have renewable AND nuclear power? Really? If you want to see or hear someone make that claim all you have to do is look at the people who agree with you about the necessity of nuclear power. Climate change deniers have been arguing that we’re wasting time and money on renewables when we should be building nuclear for years now. And any rate, even when the claim isn’t made explicitly, it’s an implicit budget demand since we couldn’t possibly subsidize all the nuclear reactors we would need to build AND promote renewable energy at the same time. No Virginia… you can’t have EVERYTHING you want… dozens of nuclear reactors AND huge new renewable capacity.

    There’s absolutely nothing controversial about Marty’s observations here, but deniers gotta deny right?

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