Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz announced Wednesday a month-long stop to social gatherings, gyms and indoor service at bars and restaurants as part of a sweeping new round of health rules meant to curb the spread of COVID-19.
The limits on public life, issued by executive order, amount to the governor’s toughest set of restrictions since March, when Minnesota had a stay-home order that was intended to build hospital capacity and supplies of personal protective equipment.
[image_credit]Minnesota Department of Health[/image_credit]
“We know it’s been difficult, and it’s been challenging, and much has been asked of you,” Walz said in a speech Wednesday. “And I need to ask a little more. We’re at a point in this pandemic that the decisions we make now will have huge repercussions on the health and well being of our neighbors, of our health care providers of our day care providers, of our teachers and so many others.”
Health officials say they expect things to get worse in the coming weeks. Infections and hospitalizations are rising, hospital systems report staff shortages and health care workers say they are exhausted. The death toll, which reached 3,010 on Wednesday, is also increasing. In October, 423 people died of COVID-19, nearly double the 219 deaths in September. Through 18 days in November, 553 people have died, which puts the state on pace for more than 900 deaths for the month.
Walz said the “moves we take now” can limit death and hospitalizations until a vaccine arrives. Health care workers and vulnerable people could start being vaccinated before the end of the year.
Last week, Walz ordered bars and restaurants to close in-house service by 10 p.m. and put new limits on the number of people who can attend social gatherings, wedding receptions, and similar events.
[image_credit]Minnesota Department of Health[/image_credit]
Social gatherings
Walz’s executive order bans indoor and outdoor social gatherings, even if people can safely distance. This means a person can’t meet up with anyone outside of their own household.
There are some exceptions, such as caring for a family member, friend or pet in another household or moving for fear for your safety or health. Drive-in gatherings are allowed if people stay in their own cars.
Outdoor activities are allowed, such as hunting, hiking and biking as long as people keep 6-feet apart from those in other households. But Minnesotans can’t play sports without distancing, like basketball, with people outside their household.
People can gather for religious services, weddings and funerals at event spaces like as a church as long as they maintain 6-feet of space between people of different households and adhere to an indoor limit of 50 percent capacity or a maximum of 250 people. Outdoor gatherings also can’t exceed 250 people.
Receptions and other events tied to weddings, funerals and celebrations like birthdays are also banned.
Travel
Walz’s order discourages but does not ban unnecessary travel and advises people who enter the state to quarantine for 14 days. That guidance doesn’t apply to people who cross state or country borders for specific necessary purposes, such as work, medical care or school.
Bars and restaurants
Bars and restaurants and similar businesses like breweries, and hookah bars, must close except for takeout, delivery or walk-up service.
Fitness centers
Gyms, fitness centers, indoor sports facilities, and any similar exercise or recreation center will also be forced to close.
Entertainment venues
Outdoor and indoor event and entertainment businesses like theaters, bowling alleys, arcades, go-kart tracks must close all in-person services with the exception of a drive-through product.
Parks, trails and outdoor athletics
State and local parks, ski trails, sledding hills, shooting ranges and similar businesses and activities can keep operating as long as they follow rules such as requiring physical distancing.
Barbershops, salons and retail businesses
Retail businesses, barbershops and salons can stay open but are limited to 50 percent capacity with a maximum of 250 people inside.
Organized sports
All youth sports must stop, including high school games, for a month. The same is true for adult sports leagues. College and professional teams are exempted, though collegiate sports must follow recommendations laid out by the state.
[image_credit]Minnesota Department of Health[/image_credit]Tribal exemption
Tribal members are exempt from the new restrictions in Walz’s executive order while on their tribal land or on land where they retain treaty rights for activities like hunting.
Schools and child care
All schools, including K-12 and higher education institutions, do not have new limits in the executive order. They must follow existing rules. Child care businesses can also operate as they have been.
Enforcement
People who intentionally violate Walz’s order are guilty of a misdemeanor and face a maximum fine of $1,000 or 90 days in prison. A business owner, manager or similar authority figure who makes an employee break the rules or encourages them to do so would face gross misdemeanor charges that carry a maximum penalty of $3,000 or a year in prison. The Minnesota Attorney General, as well as city and county attorneys, can seek civil penalties up to $25,000 for each violation of the rule.
Still, Walz said he is hoping for voluntary compliance with limits on social gatherings and is not emphasizing enforcement of penalties. “I’m not going into someone’s home on Thanksgiving,” Walz said. “But if you’re gathering with a lot of people not in your family on Thanksgiving you are really speaking volumes about what the values are here in Minnesota.”
A call to help businesses
While Congress is still mulling another COVID-19 relief package, state Rep. Dave Baker, R-Willmar, urged the state to use any remaining state money from the federal CARES Act stimulus package to help businesses and their employees.
He also said bars, restaurants, wineries and breweries should have more flexibility in selling to-go alcohol, in part to help businesses sell remaining drinks they have instead of wasting them. Finally, Baker said the state should waive or delay sales tax payments and delay loan repayment requirements for businesses that got money from state loan programs.
State Sen. Eric Pratt, a Republican from Prior Lake who chairs the Senate’s Jobs and Economic Growth Finance and Policy Committee, said Minnesotans and businesses “can’t afford another round of closures.” Pratt said the governor has not provided enough evidence to prove his earlier lockdown worked, questioned if the drop in cases this summer was due to warm weather, and said Walz needs to “show us a plan of how he is going to protect families, businesses and jobs.” (Some studies found stay-home orders likely slowed the spread of COVID-19, and health officials generally say outdoor interactions, which are easier and more common in good weather, pose a lower transmission risk.)
For his part, Walz sent a letter to Congress calling for new funding from Congress to help businesses, workers, child care programs, state and local governments. The state is projected to face a multi-billion dollar budget deficit in 2020 despite a healthy rainy-day reserve fund. Meanwhile, local leaders say the feds can borrow money while the state can’t.
In his speech, Walz said the virus is “not fair.”
“This virus disproportionately hits people of color … and no one thinks it’s fair in the businesses that it hurts,” he said. “Our hospitality industry is predicated on created wonderful atmospheres were we’re close together sharing exciting times for long periods of time. It’s not fair that the virus makes that the place where it spreads but it’s a reality.”
Many in health care applaud the new restrictions
A slate of health care leaders across the state said they back Walz’s latest order, including Mary Turner, president of the Minnesota Nurses Association, Rahul Koranne, president and CEO of the Minnesota Hospital Association, and Marilyn Peitso, president of the Minnesota Medical Association.
In a statement, the Mayo Clinic said the organization “recognizes the temporary sacrifices these restrictions may require members of the community to make,” but says the rules “will enhance Minnesota’s ability to gain control of the surge and return to safe and normal daily life sooner.”
Reporter Peter Callaghan contributed to this report.
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I’m sorry, but I’ve just about lost all patience with people who STILL refuse to wear a mask. As far as I’m concerned, each and every one of them is personally responsible for the fact that these restrictions are being reimposed. They’re the same people who, when asked about this, sneer arrogantly and say, “Masks don’t work!” Shut up! Not wearing a mask works…….it works to keep these restrictions in place. Not wearing a mask works……to closing down businesses. Not wearing a mask works…..in forcing your fellow Minnesotans to do something nobody likes to do, simply because you don’t want to do it.
TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! Why are we not closing churches???? They are a problem also
It’s clear churches are standing out like a sore thumb in the new order, since they are indoor gatherings far beyond a single household. Presumably that’s because several “conservative” judges struck down (under the First Amendment) emergency orders to stop worship services in several states during the last mini-shutdown in the Spring. Perhaps Walz just feels that he’s following the law in not ordering the shutdown of services for a month. Who knows. He seemed to be considering them as some sort of “essential service” last night.
Seems like a disservice to the religious, particularly elderly parishioners, but whatever.
My church continues to offer Mass. Everyone is required to wear a mask and maintain 6 feet of space between all attendees. Two rows of vacant pews are required between all occupied pews. Not what I like, but it works.
Your fetishising of masks is no less ridiculous than those who absolutely oppose mask usage.
The entire debate in this country over the Covid response has only demonstrated both the rampant partisanship and closemindedness of most Americans.
There are 200 countries on this planet, all of them dealing with Covid. Never, and I mean never, do I hear any of our leaders, nor any of my fellow citizens, talking about using countries that have been successful combating the virus as a model. If I hear Tim Walz say Florida one more time I’m going to pull my hair out.
You don’t have to be a scientist or epidemiologist to look at which countries in this world have been most successful. When you do that, you see that there is only a tiny handful that have done well, New Zealand, South Korea, Australia and Taiwan being the best. When you control for a country’s interconnectedness to the global trade and logistics network as well as population density, it’s clear that only Taiwan has been successful.
If you look at Taiwan, did their method focus on lockdowns and masks? The answer is clearly no. But looking objectively at various Covid responses requires abandoning partisanship and also not embracing meaningless totems, like masks, as the answer to all our problems.
And beyond being some guy on the internet, your qualifications are…? You (but not public health experts) have encyclopedic knowledge of the pandemic efforts of all 200 nations and “know” that the most successful efforts are being willfully ignored because…? And again, the “totem” of the mask is not the totality of the endorsed measures!
The suppression schematic in the US was: (1) various respected researchers, docs and public health officials came to recommend masks (and distancing and crowd avoidance) as a widespread means of combating Covid in a nation of 330 millions; (2) numerous (mostly Dem) governors advocated for (or ordered) such measures in the face of inaction, responsibility-shifting and sloth by Trump’s Task Force; (3) Repubs across the country then reflexively and reactively opposed such measures because “freedom” and they read something contrary by someone on the internet. And you conclude from this that both sides are engaged in “rampant partisanship”? Sorry, but that doesn’t fly under the facts.
But OK, I’ll bite: what did Taiwan (a far smaller island nation) do that was such a rousing and irreversible success?
I don’t need to be credentialed, and nor do you. All you have to look at are results. Almost every country on the planet has failed, a tiny few have done well, Taiwan has done the best. If we weren’t such a hopelessly divided and partisan country we might be able to recognize that.
Contrary to what he says, high mask use is a key component of Taiwan’s success. I know, I know, you are shocked that someone who doesn’t believe the experienced scientists and medical providers got his facts wrong.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270822/
First off, thank you for being relatively decent in expressing your differing opinion. I appreciate such decency; some are able to maintain it, and others don’t even try.
I don’t believe my views on mask-wearing are “fetishising,” nor ridiculous. And, frankly, I take exception to your referring to masks as “meaningless totems.” Because, taken together, you seem to be implying that I wear a mask as some sort of palliative; that I find it soothing and even comforting, much as an infant uses a pacifier. Perhaps that’s not what you meant. That said, I didn’t take it as an insult, yet it’s certainly not why I wear a mask. Nor do I wear a mask to protect myself, but if it helps in that regard – even a little bit – I think it’s worthwhile. No – I wear a mask because it helps reduce the chances that I will infect others. Please note, though, that I didn’t say a mask prevents infecting others. It just helps.
You see, that phrase “it just helps” is the crux of the matter, as far as I’m concerned. Until a vaccine is generally available, I believe we ought to take every precaution we possibly can. Whatever helps – even a little bit – in terms of prevention and limiting transmission of COVID: masks, social distancing, quarantining, and eventually a vaccine. They’re not all equally helpful, but all of them help. The tools and the techniques help. The people are another matter altogether. In most cases, they don’t want to help. Unless, of course, they’re helping themselves. Wearing a mask helps. The person who wears the mask is trying to help.
So, why NOT wear a mask?
Actually, to me, the answer to that question is really very simple: Because they don’t want to! Whatever silly rationale, or bogus theory, or dubious explanation, or lame excuse people come up with, whatever baldfaced lie they tell, it comes back to that very basic, simple, unmistakable fact: People who don’t wear a mask refuse because they simply don’t want to. Not many will say it quite so bluntly, but make no mistake; that’s what they mean. They don’t want to – and as far as I’m personally concerned, that’s just not good enough. It’s unacceptable. Not when people are dying from COVID. And, really, I don’t care if it kills one person, or a hundred-and-one, or a million-and-one, for that matter. Every single person who has had COVID, and died of it, was infected by another human being. The vast majority of those human beings infected others unwittingly, but far too many did so because of their carelessness, selfishness, or foolishness.
That’s what this boils down to. People are dying, because other people decided that what they wanted was most important. They have rights! And here we go again……their rights. People get to do whatever the hell they want – and they get to refuse to do what they should do, or could do – even if their choices kill other people. And they get to do that, because they have every right to do so. If that’s not selfishness, I don’t know what is.
One of the biggest problems is misinformation, and your comment is a perfect example.
The idea that masks are “meaningless totems” is simply false. There is overwhelming evidence that they prevent the spread of Covid. The immunologists, researchers and doctors who study and work with diseases all support mask wearing. Unfortunately, we have people who reject the recommendations of places like the Mayo Clinic in favor of Youtube “experts.”
And the idea that masks aren’t a key part of Taiwan’s strategy is an outright falsehood. The response there is driven by science, so of course they use masks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270822/
A friend of mine, who I met as a University of Minnesota Carlson School of Management MBA student, lives in the capital city of Hunan Province, China. We spoke of the requirements of our respective regions on a phone call early Saturday morning, November 21, 2020. China began to have a huge problem with infections prior to May. Before things started to calm down, the government of China required all people to wear masks and to stay home from work for about a month. People who didn’t wear a mask were fined. However, most people wore masks and didn’t question the prudence of wearing a mask.
While some businesses never reopened, the death rate was relatively small compared to the population of well over one billion people. Today, there are very few problems relative to the population with either current deaths or infections from the virus.
Contrary to what many people believe, the People’s Republic of China is not a one-party nation. There are eight political parties who all have input into how the nation is run, although the Communist Party rules the roost. Also a falsehood: People in China do not all wear blue uniforms and Mao Tse-tung caps. That went out long ago, if even it was widely prevalent. Another friend and student of mine lives in Shenzhen, a city of eleven to fifteen million people, depending on whether one counts those who were born in the city or who immigrated to the city for work and other opportunities. His wife, Chloe, an ethnic Han, is a fashion designer who was trained in Paris; he is an engineer with a Master’s in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering who is a lead team member at the largest corporation in China. We speak every Saturday on an Internet phone, so there are not costs associated with the calls. He has provided a ton of political and cultural information about current-day China, as well as the history of China, education in China, and an understanding of the cooperative nature that corporations present their employees by housing them in the same area and providing transportation to and from his work. Victor, who is also an ethnic Han, does not own a car. The city is very clean and well-ordered.
The United States has people with a streak of belief that they can be free to do whatever they want to do. I don’t believe this is what the founders of this nation had in mind. They wanted freedom from a tyrant king who cared about his own profit and power. Public health emergencies, like physical wars with other nations, require self-discipline and sacrifice. Paying attention to people with more experience, knowledge, wisdom and prudence, is the hallmark of a responsible and intelligent person. Those who lack the intelligence or desire to become a fitting member of society, with concerns for not only their well-being, but with concerns for their neighbors and family members, and others, should be treated with adulation and respect, not because they are celebrities; the others should be fined, medicated and given therapy, or jailed until they learn how to behave.
I was born in Minnesota to a man who eventually was recognized as an excellent lawyer, and served in both public and private practice, and as a past president of the Anoka County Bar Association; and with a mom who was in administrative support; and a stepmom who worked as an OB/GYN nurse anesthetist and educator. Given both an opportunity for public and private schooling, and international studies and travel using my own wages and loans, I have friends from the “lowest” to the “highest” ranks in society, globally. I, myself, am disabled with PTSD and do not work outside of my home. All said, I’ve learned to respect others. I learned, the other day, that a younger friend voted for Donald Trump. I cautioned him about this prior the election, but he is driven by anti-abortion sentiments and believed that Joe Biden endorses abortion, which he doesn’t: he acknowledges that under some conditions, it is only sane for a family, if not tragic, for abortions to be necessary. My friend also has a deep regard for the importance of a solid Jewish state, despite his dad, a higher ranked attorney than my own dad, and also Jewish, voted for Biden. I treated my friend with respect, argued my case, and spoke of other things.
I hope we can all come together with greater respect for one another’s well-being and dignity. Mask-up and don’t convene for the holidays in person. Use video conferencing and telephone calls.
I left out that winning wars requires teamwork. I also left out that people who are not towing the line should be educated, in addition to the other options such as being fined or jailed.
My parents paid for one of my foreign-study tours.
With the new restrictions in place, what has changed for the patients of long term care facilities? Yesterday 51 out of the 67 deaths were from LTC facilities. Not sure how limiting Thanksgiving and closing bars is helping the most vulnerable in our state. Please explain.
He explained it very clearly last night, for all who can think 1 move ahead in checkers. Why does it seem like the entire health care industry supports this move?
The long term care death ratio has been on the decline for months. And spare us the “look at FL!” nonsense, since the Repub governor there has taken to gaming the mortality data to suit him. Better yet, why don’t you “explain” what FL is doing that MN isn’t? Thanks!
51 out of 67 from LTC facilities, most recent count. National average of LTC under 50%, Minnesota is 72%… Florida (with nearly double the seniors) is national average. Hopefully that explains it for you.
Sorry, Joe, but after reading that I don’t think you know what the word “explains” means…
If the facility staff get sick, and can’t work then our most vulnerable population won’t get the care that they need. Keeping our hospitals from being full of covid patients means there is space and staff to care for people who might need transfers, or who have other medical needs.
This is not rocket science, and this is not new. Asking people to show some consideration, wear a mask and distance is not asking too much.
Joe, you keep asking this question as if you’re the only one noticing nursing home fatalities. The reason you’re failing to understand the connections between community transmission of the virus and infection rates inside nursing homes is that you’re not processing the information you’re being given, you’re trying to play debate games with it. Your question has been answered hundreds of times over the last 8 or so months, and it was answered AGAIN in the governors latest statement.
Paul, less than 1% of Minnesotans live in a LTC facility, they account for 72% of all deaths here…. Please explain. Nation wide less than 1% of folks live in LTC facilities (most being in Florida), they account for 40% of COViD deaths. Please explain the 32% point increase from the 49 other states to our state at 72%… Thank you…. Also who is to blame for that huge discrepancy?
Other states are experiencing higher mortality rates in their non-LTC populations than MN! Thus our LTC rate is higher, and has lately been falling as a proportion of deaths!
Not rocket science! Math!
Where do you get that LTC deaths are falling in a % basis? That number fell from a high of around 80% to current 70% and hasn’t changed. 51 of 67 deaths from the other day were LTC deaths… Math tells you that number is not falling.
Joe…..if you had followed the incidences of deaths in the past weeks you would have seen that the death numbers are moving down the age ladder into the 40’s, 50’s, and 60’s….those who have participated in the trump rallies, unmasked bar parties, et. al.
The numbers remain the same for LTC facilities. Show me the numbers on healthy 40 to 60 year olds, with no underlying health issues, who have died. Unfortunately, there are people in their 40’s and 50’s with multiple underlying health issues that need constant care. They are dying in the facilities also. Everybody understands 99.5% of the folks getting COViD do not need Doctor care. The people who are at risk, 0.5% of population, need to take precautions. Shutting down the state is plain wrong! More people will be hurt by not being able to work than the disease itself.
The hiding in the basement won’t work either, unless you plan on never leaving your basement.
With the state’s Repubs coming out immediately in opposition to this mini-shutdown, I predict that the response of those that see this public health crisis as a “political” issue will be, um…less than satisfactory, shall we say. Their response to this calamity has been contemptible, and they have made the state ungovernable.. Presumably MN could issue something like “war bonds” to help fund the hospitality/fitness industry for the next month. They would be snapped up immediately.
But then, all we get from the Repub party is complaints and griping, never actual proposals, other than “Business as usual! Let the kids play, for God’s sake!” Very responsible leadership in the face of what the docs are begging for.
The ball is now in the court of the Gravedigger of Democracy, Mitch McConnell, and his band of do-nothing “conservative” nihilists.
Your naked partisanship is absolutely a core part of the problem, just as much as republican partisans.
I agree that the Republican party hasn’t offered a counter strategy other than go about your business as usual. But the Democrats proposal is equally absurd if you take off your partisan glasses.
Not a single country that has operated under the mask mandate and lockdown policy has seen positive results over time. What you get is a drop in cases during the lockdown, then a spike when the lockdown is over, followed by the same cookie cutter rinse and repeat.
When I hear a leader, any leader, in the US say something like “We have failed in our response. I am inviting representatives from the only countries that have successfully combatted the Covid pandemic to advise my team on the strategies that worked for them and how we can adapt them here” that person will have my full support…I’m not holding my breath
Your category error here is that you somehow think that what Walz ordered is the “Democrats proposal”, and not the uniform advice of the state’s civil service public health officials, seconded by the state’s healthcare industry. Yet because the Dems have adopted that approach, it (and I) are as “partisan” as the do-nothing Repubs’ griping and obstructionism.
But at least you can see the Repubs for what they are. And you know that elected leaders in the US have refused to contact the gold standard leadership of some (unnamed) country how, exactly?
Name one. Just one. Then explain how it should be implemented here. If not, get outta here with your “a pox on all houses” trolling nonsense.
Don’t send COViD patients back or keep positive cases in the LTC facilities, Minnesota does that. Have a separate hospital for them until the 14 day quarantine period is over. Is that enough for you?
Sure Joe, where would you like that to be, who is going to build it, and with what money? Who will be staffing it and how do you propose keeping them from being infected in a community that’s seen something like 60k new cases over the the last 9 days? I can tell you to bell the cat too, doesn’t mean you’ll be able to do it.
Name one what? A country that’s effectively combatted the Covid?? Taiwan and New Zealand seem to have done the best. Honorable mention to South Korea.
I’m not a public health expert, but I don’t have to be. All you have to do is acknowledge that we’re all in this together and that The United States isn’t the only place dealing with Covid. If our leadership; Trump, Walz, all of them, had this mindset we’d be much better off.
I don’t blame our leaders though. It’s obvious that it’s really an American problem and our leaders just reflect how most of us see things.
No, the measures that THEY took, that you’d like to implement here, with a realistic outlook on how that would work out.
Btw when all three of those countries you cite instituted far harsher lockdowns than ours, it was the CORRECT decision for their disadvantaged, but not ours? You do of course realize they also instituted 100% travel bans as well, which in equivalence here would amount to shutting down interstate travel and commerce. But you’re worried about the economy? If you’re gonna mess around, could you at least do it coherently, it makes it far more entertaining for the reader.
And come to think of it, you also seem to be discounting or ignoring the possibility of effective vaccines coming online in another quarter or so, meaning that a shutdown now may make even more sense than previous shutdowns, whatever their success (or lack thereof) across the globe to date, since it may (hopefully!) be the last one. In any event, it’s not like that’s a baseless implausibility.
Walz pointed this out last night, too, in his (I guess) “nakedly partisan” address to the state…
“meaning that a shutdown now may make even more sense than previous shutdowns, whatever their success (or lack thereof) across the globe to date, since it may (hopefully!) be the last one.”
That’s a very cavalier attitude to take when we’re talking about prohibiting employment for a significant number of people, many of which are not high income earners. And this time there is no bonus for their paltry unemployment benefits. All for what you seem to finally acknowledge is the proven ineffective lockdown strategy. But hey, Republicans bad amirite
You misunderstood my observation, but no matter. What’s important is that a “lockdown” strategy obviously suppresses the virus during the period of the lockdown. You question whether the suppression effect continues once the lockdown is relaxed, citing the rest of the world’s supposed “failures” to date. But now we are simply trying to make it to an (announced) vaccine distribution stage, so previous “failures” (if they were such) are now irrelevant to the current situation.
And of course (in my extreme partisanship), I wonder which party in DC has passed and advocated for additional substantial Covid relief bills (of over one and two trillion), and which one has refused to adopt any additional legislation on the crisis whatever to save businesses and low income workers? Yes, more evidence that “Both-Sides-Do-It”, I know….
Its really quite odd, considering all the “examples” he cites of success around the world includes quite a bit more draconian lockdowns than anything we’ll see here. Its almost as if he doesn’t have a point beyond stirring the pot, (cue shocked faces, all around).
Wrong
If you would take your partisan blinders off you’d see how wrong you are.
You start from the assumption “Republican bad and the cause of all problems” and work backwards
I start from the assumption “All data shows only a few countries have handled this well, what can we learn from them”
Anyone who doesn’t understand how community transmission is killing seniors and other in LTCF’s after 8 months of COVID information is simply not trying to process the information you’ve been given. If you don’t understand how these restrictions have a protective effect you’re not trying to understand what is killing seniors and how. Anyone who really cares, take the time to understand the scenario. If you’re still pointing to numbers… you’re not trying.
Paul, seniors are killing seniors in LTC facilities. They are not immediately taking the COViD patients out of the facility and are actually reintroducing infected seniors back into assisted care. A 21 year old kid at a bar at 1 am has nothing to do with seniors dying. Same for health clubs and anything else Walz decides to shut down.
Joe, again, if you really cared about seniors you’d know that they are being killed by community acquired infections brought into the facilities by staff. The idea that seniors, sitting around in isolation, are somehow cooking up COVID virus and infecting each other is simply ridiculous.
Please let this discussion continue. So far I have heard 40 and 50 year olds are dying more, no evidence of healthy 40-70 year olds dying from COViD. I have read where LTC deaths are coming down in Minnesota, not so, hanging at 70% death rate. I have seen the flat out hard evidence of a 40% death rate from LTC in 49 other states and folks act like Minnesota’s 70% death rate is normal. How? I have seen folks here claim closing a bar early will stop the LTC deaths, not true. Taking COViD patients out of LTC facilities immediately and not introducing positive cases back to the facilities until 14 days is the answer.
Let the conversation continue please. The fear of this disease is causing a lot of misinformation to be out there. Unfortunately anyone who disagrees is called a troll, information is not trolling.
Joe, the only people who want to pretend our death rates are “normal” are Republicans like yourself who want to declare an end to the emergency, end the restrictions, and “open up” the economy.
And again, you’re clearly not processing the information or trying to understand the nature of community transmission. These facts and information have been presented almost every day for 8 months now.
Paul, so your response to all sorts of disinformation is Republicans want people to die… Wow… Everybody understands community spread, it happens every flu season. When you subtract the LTC deaths you have roughly 1,000 Minnesotans that have died from COViD. You want to shut down the economy for a death rate of 0.0001 of Minnesotans not living in LTC facilities? That is nonsensical.
Joe, I’m not responding to disinformation, I’m responding to YOUR comments wherein you have repeatedly claimed this pandemic isn’t serious enough to mitigate because too few people have died. You just said it again, you literally just said you think it’s nonsensical to respond the COVID pandemic because it’s only killed .0001 of Minnesotans. So yeah, we get it, you want to see more people die before you take this seriously. Don’t keep saying that and then expect us to pretend you haven’t said it.
I can’t necessarily say what Republicans “want”, but your one and only big policy idea is to unleash the pandemic, and that WILL kill more people. If you DON’T want to kill people, why are you promoting policies that will… kill more people?
By the way, the fact that you’d rather see more people die OUTSIDE of nursing homes may not buttress your credibility or moral credentials as much as you seem to think.
Given your repeated statements, Republican comments, and the behavior surrounding those statements, it’s clear that Republicans, and you yourself have failed to process or comprehend the information that’s been available on a daily basis for the last 8 months. You may have lived through a few flu seasons but guys clearly don’t understand the nature of this pandemic, and the community transmission that’s infecting, sickening, and killing people. If you understood any of this you simply wouldn’t be making so many of these ridiculous statements.
If someone wants to see more people die before they take this pandemic seriously, I’ll let them speak for themselves. If human fatalities don’t bother you, you might want to consider the fact that pandemics don’t just kill people by infecting them, and the fatalities aren’t the only cost.
You don’t have to acquire COVID 19 to get killed by this pandemic. When hospitals max out because maxed out capacity staff shortages, all the other good old fashioned way of dying are more likely to kill you. Heart attacks, appendicitis, strokes, ATV accidents, and any and all other sundry events and emergencies that normally kill people still happen, and they’re more likely to kill people when a maxed out health care system can’t respond.
If 3,000 fatalities don’t impress you, what about the nearly 20,000 that have been hospitalized? What about the 200+k that have had to isolate? Death isn’t the only consequence of COVID infection.
Here’s one I haven’t seen. I don’t understand why the Governor has repeatedly allowed big box stores and churches to stay open but shuts down fitness clubs. As a former owner of a big box clubs, I can assure you clubs have the best HVAC filtration systems made. We brought in fresh air every minute, unlike churches who have the worst. Restaurants also have excellent systems, and when he limited capacity to 50% that made social distancing easy Peasey. His newest order put no limits on big box stores and churches. Costco on the weekends is beyond packed. What’s up with that?
Either shut down absolutely everything or keep things open. Cherry picking what you think causes spread doesn’t seem fair. Also, why hasn’t he issued a decree that every business he has forced to close be given a reprieve on paying property taxes. I would also add Xcel energy bills, which for big box clubs are huge.
Last, I work out at a small studio ( 1700 sq ft with a trainer. Why does she have to close? I hope readers can understand why cherry picking certain businesses while allowing others who spread Covid to remain open makes utterly no sense.
Paul, are working age people (average age of workforce,42) dying of this disease? Once you get that figured out, the next response is why close down some businesses but not others? Mom and Pop stores are getting killed, big box stores are thriving, why?
Because they have the funds to weather the pandemic, and because conservatives like you have pushed the narrative that “cheaper is better” as a part of your embrace of supply side economics for 50+ years, allowing them to take ever more market share from the “mom and pop” establishments you now claim to cherish. “Mom and Pop’s” no longer have the capacity to provide the goods and services society needs to maintain itself for the duration of the pandemic and as such must take a back seat to those entities that can. As you’ve stated yourself, many times, businesspeople accept risk when choosing to open their business, their success is not guaranteed. Now as a result of a natural disaster, aided by poor planning at a national level, they will most likely experience losses associated with that risk. Why do you seem so amenable to the idea that we should be picking winners and losers in this instance, when its seems you are so antagonistic towards that idea in others?
Joe and Besty, perhaps if you stopped getting your information from your twitter accounts we wouldn’t have to keep explaining the basic features of this pandemic over and over again?
The reason some businesses are being limited more than others is because these are different scenarios wherein different activities and behavior occur. People don’t take their mask off in retail settings and talk, shout, and laugh a few feet away from each other for extended periods of time. Nor do people in retail setting exercise strenuously enough to exhale sufficient doses of viral aerosol into the air around them. There have been multiple outbreaks and thousands of case of transmission associated with restaurants, gyms, and sporting events. Very few if any cases have been traced back to retail or salons.
In fact one aspect of this pandemic and the dial-back that has gotten scant attention thus far is the resistance and lack of compliance within the hospitality industry. The fact is that had restaurants and gyms taken their responsibility to limit transmission more seriously we probably wouldn’t be looking at a sever dial-back like this right now. While Salon’s have bent over backwards to limit transmission, many bars and gyms have seen their role as playing whack-a-mole with recommendations and attempts to limit transmission. For instance when capacities were limited 25% or 50% many restaurants decided to calculate their capacities by using the fire marshal limits rather than their actually seating capacity. So if they had 100 actual seats, but a fire marshal capacity of 250, they used the 250 to practically fill their restaurants and event centers. Some places built huge tents with walls in their parking lots and claimed this was “outdoor” seating. Others got around the bar seating restrictions by pushing their high top tables up against the bar. The net effect of all of this was to increase or sustain levels of transmission rather than mitigate it. When add this to all the compliance resistance and failure you get the surge we’re trying to deal with now.
Joe’s question regarding age groups and fatality rates simply reveals his ongoing failure to understand the nature of community transmission. Those who die of COVID 19 primarily die of infections they acquire from all the asymptomatic people who don’t die from COVID 19. This isn’t rocket science, the more asymptomatic people you have walking around with COVID infections, the more likely it is that vulnerable people will get exposed, sick, and die. This why fatality rates increase among the most vulnerable demographic when over-all infection rates increase. We’re seeing record high fatalities among the vulnerable now because we’re seeing record high infection rates across the entire population. This is why limiting transmission in the community reduces fatalities. Since restaurants, bars, gyms, wedding receptions, and sporting event are significant sources of transmission, we can reduce specific transmission to vulnerable people by reducing over-all transmission within the community.
The truth is that more restrictions applied to more scenarios would be more effective, but that doesn’t mean the current restriction are nonsensical, ineffective, or “unfair”. If Republicans want more restrictions applied to more business and activities, why don’t they just say so?