Gov. Tim Walz
Gov. Tim Walz Credit: MinnPost photo by Peter Callaghan

It has been central to the political pitch made by Gov. Tim Walz, DFL legislators and their allies: Wealthy state residents and big corporations did well during the pandemic recession — but they didn’t pay their fair share of taxes.

House Majority Leader Ryan Winkler
[image_credit]MinnPost photo by Taryn Phaneuf[/image_credit][image_caption]House Majority Leader Ryan Winkler[/image_caption]
“We’re gonna ask those who are most fortunate and those corporations who profited over this time” to do more, Walz said when he released his budget and tax plan Jan. 26.

It’s become a common refrain. “The rich and big corporations are getting richer while working families are struggling the most,” House Majority Leader Ryan Winkler said on the opening day of the 2021 session. 

House Speaker Melissa Hortman agreed: “There are people who are not paying their fair share. … there are people and industries who are doing better in the pandemic and it is important that everyone is paying their fair share as we go through these tough times.”

 

 

 

It’s not just Minnesota. Democrats in states across the country are looking to make tax changes that increase assessments on high earners and cut tax burdens on lower-income families, including expanding child care tax credits and the earned-income tax credit.

But Republicans and business leaders are pushing back against claims that the state tax system lets some escape their fair share. As Minnesota Senate Taxes Committee Chair Carla Nelson, R-Rochester, said at a hearing on the Walz tax plan: “You almost have to discount this statement — ‘pay their fair share’ — as a rationale for increasing taxes by over a billion dollars. The fact of the matter is, in Minnesota, a highly progressively taxed state, people do pay their fair share. In fact, they pay more.”

Minnesota’s tax system does score highly for progressivity from both left- and right-leaning analysts. That, however, might not matter. The fair share strategy is a national one, applied to states regardless of whether their tax systems are progressive or regressive. 

Individual Income Tax: Who Pays the Tax
[image_credit]Minnesota House Research and Fiscal Analysis Departments[/image_credit][image_caption]Individual Income Tax: Who Pays the Tax[/image_caption]

Part of a national push

The blueprint for the strategy was described in an article published in December by the progressive Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which argued that — due to the disparate effects of the pandemic and its economic consequences — “states would be well-advised to raise taxes on wealthy families to preserve funding for crucial priorities that can promote an equitable recovery.”

State Sen. Carla Nelson
[image_caption]State Sen. Carla Nelson[/image_caption]
The purest manifestation of the strategy is perhaps in Washington state, where a tax proposal would have collected 97 percent of its revenue from just four taxpayers: Microsoft founders Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer and Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and his former wife, MacKenzie Scott.

Walz’s plan fits into the national story. His proposed fifth income tax tier — for couples earning $1 million or more — will hit about 0.7 percent of taxpayers, allowing Walz to define those being taxed as the “1 percent on the 1 percent.” It would also create a higher tax rate on capital gains, the profits people make from the sale of assets like stocks or property: 1 percent if profits on the sale was between $500,000 and $1 million; 4 percent if more than $1 million. Finally, the proposal would also increase the state’s corporate income tax, known as the corporation franchise tax, for profitable corporations.

Taken together, the three measures would raise $1.3 billion of the $1.66 billion total tax hike proposed by Walz.

 

 

 

Thursday, Walz will present a new plan that takes into account two significant changes since his budget blueprint was first released: the February forecast, which projected a $1.6 billion surplus in lieu of a previously projected budget shortfall for the next budget period; and the federal American Rescue Plan, which will send $2.7 billion to Minnesota, with $2.1 billion going directly to local governments and nearly $1.4 billion going to the state’s school districts.

Individual Income Tax: Effective Rates
[image_credit]Minnesota House Research and Fiscal Analysis Departments[/image_credit][image_caption]Individual Income Tax: Effective Rates[/image_caption]
Walz has not said whether he will still ask for a tax hike, but his Office of Management and Budget commissioner has indicated that new taxes will remain part the governor’s budget proposal. After calling the February forecast “good news,” Commissioner Jim Schowalter told a Senate committee that much of the money is one-time funding, not an ongoing increase in state revenue that would pay for the new spending proposed by Walz over time.

“As we set the budget and as we set obligations going forward, we need to think about that and take it into account,” Schowalter said. “Understanding the nature of the money, that more of it is one time instead of structural is a really important consideration.”

How does Minnesota’s compare?

Is Minnesota’s tax system unfair? Most analyses and state-by-state comparisons conclude that Minnesota already has one of the nation’s most progressive tax systems, defined as one that collects more tax revenue from the wealthy than from the poor or even the middle class.

The state Department of Revenue’s Tax Incidence Report, which was updated on March 4, says the system is regressive, but only slightly. Using a statistical analysis known as the Suits Index, Minnesota’s system is just 0.013 percent below proportional. But if income taxes are separated from business taxes, the system becomes very progressive. That is: regressive business taxes drag down the state’s overall progressivity score.

State and local shares of family income
[image_credit]Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy[/image_credit][image_caption]State and local shares of family income[/image_caption]
The Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy’s regular assessment of state taxes concludes that just five states and the District of Columbia have positive scores on progressivity: California, Delaware, New Jersey, Vermont and Minnesota. The progressive systems rely less on consumption taxes and more on income taxes, with rates that increase with wealth. They also have features to benefit lower-income people, such as refundable earned income tax credits, which give money to taxpayers even if they don’t earn enough to have taxes due. “Thoughtful, progressive tax policy decisions permitted these six jurisdictions to make their tax systems somewhat more equitable for those with the least ability to pay,” the report concludes.

Carl Davis, the research director at the Washington, D.C.-based Institute, said Minnesota does better than most states. But he also says “that’s a very low bar.”

“Most states have steeply regressive tax systems where you’re asking the most of those who have the least. It runs counter to most people’s perception of fairness,” he said. “If you stack up Minnesota next to most states, it looks better than most — no doubt. But you have to keep in mind what most states look like, and it is definitely not the case that Minnesota has a robust, progressive tax score.”

Other ways to measure system

Mark Haveman, the executive director of the business-oriented Minnesota Center for Fiscal Excellence, said the state’s Tax Incidence Study “tells a very compelling story about Minnesota’s tax system, that we are fair, and frankly we have been fair for a very long time.”

Haveman said that what are actually tax adequacy debates — whether there is enough money to buy things people want — are often “marketed as tax fairness problems.” He said it is a compelling political message to frame the issue as someone not “doing their fair share of the lifting.”

“But it distorts the public perception and does a disservice to Minnesota’s long and significantly successful efforts to address progressivity and ability to pay,” Haveman said, who produces a regular state-by-state tax comparison called “How Does Minnesota Compare?

“Our highly progressive individual income tax, with a tiny assist from the estate tax and the property tax refund program, offsets the regressivity of every other tax imposed on every other tax on individuals and households, including the regressive vice taxes and gas taxes and provider taxes,” he said. “That’s something really worth reflecting on.”

But progressivity shouldn’t be the only measure of a good tax system. It should also be stable and relatively easy to collect and administer, and over-reliance on wealth taxes has its own dangers, since that too can be volatile. The 2008 recession, for example, caused a deep deficit for Minnesota because it hit capital gains and high-earners harder than others.

Washington state has among the nation’s most regressive tax systems, with no income tax, heavy reliance on sales taxes, and business taxes on gross revenue instead of profits. The Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy places it on its list of “The Terrible 10.” At the same time, Oxfam put Washington at the top of its list of states that treated its workers best during the COVID recession. Minnesota was 17th.

As Haveman notes: “What you do with your tax money is just as important as how you raise it.”

Taxes Committee Chair Nelson said she worries that Minnesota will become what she called a “tax island” in the region, with much higher tax rates than surrounding states and with rates among the highest in the U.S. “We do not want that capital, those revenue producers, leaving our state,” she said. “Is there any level of tax increase that would make us uncompetitive?”

COVID-19’s disparate impact

Minnesota’s state economist, Laura Kalambokidis, has shown that the recession caused by the pandemic had different impacts on different groups of people and businesses in Minnesota. The businesses that weren’t closed — and the jobs that could be done from home — didn’t suffer much economic loss, said Kalambokidis.

State Economist Laura Kalambokidis
[image_credit]MinnPost photo by Greta Kaul[/image_credit][image_caption]State Economist Laura Kalambokidis[/image_caption]
Those who couldn’t work from home, however, worked under the threat of infection. Meanwhile, the industries that were largely shuttered, like hospitality, employed more people with lower incomes and have higher-than-average representations of women and people of color. Enhanced and extended unemployment insurance helped those workers, as did payroll protection plan loans and other business grants. But the disparate impact is shown clearly in state tax collections that were more-robust than expected last May. Corporate profits taxes, individual income taxes and sales taxes all did better than expected during the depths of the recession in the spring of 2020. 

House Taxes Committee Chair Paul Marquart, DFL-Dilworth — the person charged with shepherding the Walz plan through the House — has been in the House for two decades, and has watched the changes in the tax code that have made the system more progressive, especially the addition of a 4th income tax tier in 2013.

He said refundable tax credits for working families, property tax refunds and renters credits have helped to make the system fairer. Minnesota has the country’s most generous “zero bracket” — the income level beneath which no taxes are owed — at $34,000 for a family of four. 

“We’ve done a number of things that are progressive, and you can see that in the data,” Marquart said.

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But he said he is concerned about the disproportionate impact of the COVID recession. “The lower-income you were before COVID-19, the harder you were hit by COVID-19,” he said. “That income inequality has to be factored in.”

Marquart said the federal tax reform of 2017 was also more generous to higher-income earners and businesses.

State Rep. Paul Marquart
[image_caption]State Rep. Paul Marquart[/image_caption]
Marquart acknowledges one reason the state’s tax collections have been as robust lately is that people and businesses that pay most of the taxes in Minnesota have been doing well — and pay taxes at relatively high rates. But Marquart said there already are demands for the current budget surplus, from forgiving taxes on federal payroll protection plan loans and the $600 unemployment insurance top off to aligning the state tax code with the federal tax code.

“We’d spend more than half of the surplus just on that,” he said.

And like Schowalter, he argues that the money from the surplus and the federal American Rescue Plan is one-time money and can’t be used to pay for the new spending on school and economic development that Walz wants. If you want to fund any of the things Walz wants to do, he said,  “there’s gonna be revenue needed, in my mind.”

Adequate or inadequate, progressive or regressive are the terms of the tax debate in 2021. But another term might be more apt: academic. Senate Republicans who control that body were opposed to tax increases before the session began and have only become more given the $1.6 billion surplus and the federal money from the American Rescue Plan.

“The $4.7 billion, with the $1.6 billion in surplus that we already had, is why I stood up and said we do not need a tax increase,” said Senate Majority Leader Paul Gazelka, R-East Gull Lake. “I’m asking the governor to drop his plans for any tax increase because we have so much money coming into the state, now is not the time for a tax increase.”

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81 Comments

  1. This is not binary – fair versus unfair. It is a matter of how fair. Our goal should be to make it more fair.

    The one group for which it is not progressive enough is the top 1%. They face the same rate as many less affluent, and likely pay a smaller percentage of the income. That is unless they pay nothing at all

    In terms of federal and state taxes we need two or three additional brackets, need to cap tax breaks or have alternative minimum taxes. We definitely need to get very aggressive about the millionaire tax cheats. Really crack down on those who are under reporting taxable income and pulling tax dodges, with everyone above certain income thresholds facing full audits every year.

    1. I’ve never read comments from anyone who truly despised the wealthy like this. You’re assuming people in a certain tax brackets cheat, so all of them should be audited every year? Did you bother to look at the chart that explains who pays most of the income taxes? Look at the personal income tax chart. You could always move to Florida, where there is no income tax.

      1. Did you bother to look at the chart that explains who pays most of the income taxes?

        Were you under the impression that the government should collect taxes from people with no money? I don’t think that would work very well.

      2. Joel could move to FL, but then he’d have to live in FL.

        It’s seems ungenerous- dare I say an ad hominem attack – to characterize Joel’s suggestion that we audit the uber wealthy (an idea I too support) as “truly despising the wealthy”.

        The Fed IRS estimates the tax gap – the difference between what taxpayers should pay and what they actually pay on time at about $458.0 billion annually based on updated estimates. This represents the amount of noncompliance with the tax laws.

        Instead of raising rates, perhaps we start with better enforcement of existing tax laws.

      3. “You’re assuming people in a certain tax brackets cheat, so all of them should be audited every year?”

        According to a study conducted by the IRS and academic researchers, the top 1% of households fail to report about 21% of their income. For the top 0.1%, unreported income may be even more than that.

        http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/GLRRZ2021.pdf

  2. Depends on how one looks at it I suppose. Is the allocation of what taxes pay for fair? What kind of priority should we give fairness? A rich person may pay ten times more in taxes but does he get ten times more in services? Does his kids ten times more in schools than poor kids? Can he drive ten times faster on the freeways? Do the cops come to his house on a call ten times faster?

    1. As far as your last question goes, quite possibly.

      The rich person also has more property and wealth that is being protected by the mechanisms of government. He is more likely to resort to the courts to resolve disputes, and his need for protection from crime increases.

      Capitalist icon Adam Smith regarded progressive income taxation as a no-brainer, not meriting any significant discussion in Wealth of Nations.

      1. It’s amazing how many conservatives have never heard of, much less read, WON.

  3. What’s fair is in the eye of the beholder! Need to also look at what can folks deduct off their taxes, before they start paying the AGI line. IRA’s, 401K’s, depending on your situation, automobile costs, cell phones, internet access, computers, home office, private air travel, some of those deductions get pretty luxurious. Then you go over what $142800 you get an automatic 12.4% tax break if you are self employed. Yeah, its complicated. The comment “tax island” also brings up an interesting dichotomy, as certain states try to take care of their own, suspect, supply and demand laws will guide poorer folks migration to states as salvation islands increasing the need for more taxes to cover the rise in need. One final point, to those folks that always claim well they worked for it! Yeah, OK you worked for the original dough, but a $3M account at 10% ROI is laying ~$300K at your feet, no work required, year after year! As I have always said, $ made on $ should always be taxed higher than $ made off sweat and blood. Looks moral, ethical and conservative.

    1. I beg to differ. When you invest, you are taking a risk. If you lose money, you’re only allowed to deduct 3K on a short term investment loss. Retired people live off of investments. You want to raise their taxes? Really?

      1. Did you read the comment, or just fire off? I am retired, on S/S, do you disagree with the frame work of the argument? Are the called out deductions not in the tax code, the math incorrect? The points were about tax advantages. So you prefer blood and sweat be taxed higher than $ made on $? That was the point, agree or disagree? Yeah, what about risk, there is risk going to the grocery store?

        1. I kind of thought you would “get my drift” Dennis. I do not think dividends and gains should be taxed at a higher rate than ordinary income. What people do with after tax dollars should not be taxed at all, to be quite honest.

        2. And in case you weren’t aware, Minnesota is one of the highest taxed states in the country. I don’t think there is a need to raise taxes even more.

    2. Dennis, I agree with the sentiment expressed here. However, your comment “ 12.4% tax break if you are self employed” is misleading. It is not complicated either. There is no “break” for SE SS taxes. This $142K SS wage basis at which the SS tax is no longer levied is the same wage basis amt used by W2 employees and their employers – both of whom enjoy this same “tax break”.

    1. Agree. There also need to be more deductions for the regular person, especially if they have no children or don’t rent out property–the home repairs and medical bills eat at those under the 120,000 range and many pay 20-23% in taxes. These are the earners who feel like they play by the rules and can’t get ahead. Current codes don’t recognize the high cost of housing and other bills.

      1. I think we need fewer tax deductions, not more. The tax code is already overly complicated with each special interest demanding their own section. Why do we want to give retirees tax advantages instead of people with young children? Why people with houses instead of people who rent? Why deductions for medical bills instead of single payer health care that would save $1 trillion annually? Why tax deductions for student loan interest instead of state funding making the cost of college lower?

  4. Thanks for a well balanced objective view of the issues around this topic.

    I would take issue with the assertion by Rep Marquart that the 2017 federal tax law benefitted high income taxpayers – that may be true in states without a highly progressive income tax system like MN, but here it led to double taxation of the large state tax bills with disallowing most all the local tax deductions – so many high income taxpayers here saw their federal tax bills go up despite the slight decrease in top federal marginal tax rates.

    I have to wonder if the proponents of further high income tax hikes would fare better if they had the approach to acknowledge the disproportionate support the state already gets from it wealthiest taxpayers and asking for a bit more vs the dunning “pay your fair share!!” screed.

  5. Not being a fan of tax increases personally, I’ll nonetheless take issue with Mr. Gazelka’s reasoning.

    “I’m asking the governor to drop his plans for any tax increase because we have so much money coming into the state, now is not the time for a tax increase.” If having a significant budget surplus, and adding to that surplus a sizable pile of one-time federal money (some of which, of course, is our own tax money) is not a good time for a tax increase to better support schools, infrastructure improvements, &c., all of which are essentially investments in Minnesota’s future, when, exactly, IS a good time for a tax increase?

    Since times of economic recession are the most obvious very, very bad choices for tax increases, is there an alternative that Mr. Gazelka and other “No tax increase” types have in mind? State funding of the university and college system has declined by about 1/3 in my 11 years here, whether good times or bad. State funding for Pre-K-12 public schools has also declined, also whether good times or bad. MDOT has a long list of road projects that have to wait for funding to be started, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Whose ox would Mr. Gazelka prefer to gore?

    1. Minnesota makes a ton of money off of taxes. It makes more every year, year after year. In other words, it keeps up with inflation and then some. So you have to ask, why does the Gov want to raise them again? Because I’ve come to the conclusion that the DFL can’t stop spending money they don’t have. So the only way to keep spending is taxing the rich. Who are already among the highest taxed in the country.
      And don’t think that those with money won’t move. I did. And many people I know did also. If you start increasing business taxes, don’t be surprised if those businesses move as well. All the states bordering MN are watching, and they will be the first ones to court business owners and corporations should these “necessary” tax hikes go through

      1. Minnesota is required to have a balanced budget. That means the money going out roughly equals the money coming in. So, “Minnesota” doesn’t make any money. Rather, Minnesotans are the beneficiaries of the taxes. Whether we all benefit equitably is a different story (note that equitable does not equal…equal).

        1. Then What do you call the multi-billion dollar rainy day fund? I call it making money you don’t spend. That’s extra money. Minnesota has a habit of increasing spending every year. I think MN is generally a well run state. We are currently in the top 4 for taxes. I worry that many of the large corporations headquartered here might move, if the rates keep going up and up. Every state around MN is doing the opposite to lure them away.

          1. Oh that? It’s actually called the “Budget Reserve” and it’s mandated by law. It’s designed to, you know, deal with emergencies not, as you might imagine (though not reasonably), throw government parties and buy frivolous stuff. No one, let alone a state government, should operate by the skin of their teeth if they can help it. I imagine you’d “tut tut” anyone who didn’t put enough aside for emergencies, but somehow a government fund for the same reason is bad?

            1. If the pandemic wasn’t a “rainy day” I don’t know what is. Did Walz use any of that money? No. Could he use that money instead of raising taxes again? I would think so.

          2. For the record Ian, I pay higher property taxes on my Minnesota house because I’m not a resident. Minnesota will always find a way to get the money, one way or another.

  6. Sales, excise, and property taxes are regressive, property taxes being so because real estate is a higher fraction of total wealth for the less well-off. Tenants pay for the taxes on the real estate that they rent, and tend to have subaverage wealth. The problem with relying more on income tax is that a jurisdiction derives less revenue from non-resident visitors.

  7. I’m not in the 1% category but I do OK. But my house/cars/kid is paid for and I’ve been living within my means my whole life.
    I’m close enough to retirement that if taxes get any higher, I’ll just work less. Live within my means and coast it out.
    Then when I retire its Florida/South Carolina/Black Hills of SD.

    1. Why do people think “I’m going to leave the state” is a threat?

      Buh-bye.

      1. It hasn’t been a threat, it’s happening. Look at all the people that left NY where ‘touchy feely’ Coumo whined their high tax payers are leaving and California where the Dems want to have claw back taxes for those that leave. How many snow birds are there from here that live in FL, TX, and AZ for six months plus one day?
        The DFL has a spending problem. It is their answer for any time. They recently had our largest tax increase in state history and that’s not enough? The graphs show how much of the state’s share is being paid by the top. How much more of it does the DFL want? People are leaving and more are going to follow.

        1. “The DFL has a spending problem.”

          I’m going to pose the same question to you that I posed to Mr. Gotzman: How do you think the state budget is set? If it is too high, that is the fault of the people who have made demands through their elected representatives. It’s not some evil scheme by faceless conspirators; it is the result of a representative process.

          If you don’t like it, tell us what you would cut. Not just the standard litany of “wastefraudandabuse,” not some vague mutterings about the human services budget, and not some chump change hogwash so beloved of TV news hysteria (“Your tax dollars were spent to buy donuts for a meeting!!!”). Let see some proposals to cut some real dollars that would make a difference.

          Just to judge your sincerity, let’s start by focusing on the cuts that would affect your community. Is there a state park nearby that could be closed? How about a highway or a bridge that can go unrepaired for awhile? Should we release some prisoners early, to save money there (corrections are expensive)?

          Talk is cheap. Let’s hear your proposals, and let’s see how you want to sell them to the voters.

        2. Why can’t you understand? We don’t care. Others, most likely those with perspectives more amenable to our own, will replace them. Its almost as though retirement age conservatives have convinced themselves that THEY alone are capable of successfully starting and operating a business, that somehow when they leave, the demand that their production fills cannot and will not be filled by others. My word, you folks can’t honestly be that self involved, can you?

        3. You make that claim, but where’s your data? Minnesota has ranged from the top 11th to the top 14th median household income state for the past 6 or more years. If high earners were moving away, you’d see Minnesota drop in standing. It’s not, so they’re not. If it’s just relatively wealthy retirees going to Florida, that is a net gain for the state economy, as retirement income is generally lower (even if you are relatively wealthy), retirees are relatively more resource intensive, and it means more jobs for younger people. Believe it or not, companies that need a large workforce are not going to follow your retired rear end to Florida. That would be counterproductive. Retirees are consumers, not producers. Also, while MN income has remained steadily well above the US’s average, none of our neighbors have a median income that exceeds the US average (including Wisconsin). Well, except for North Dakota, presumably due to a relatively low population with a high percentage employed by oil production.

      2. I guess it’s not a big deal if people leave. Unless too many with higher incomes do. Then who’s left to support all the programs and services you want? The larger issue is corporate income taxes. Every state bordering MN has lower tax rates on business, including much lower commercial property rates. I owned multiple biz in MN and WI. In WI, commercial property was assessed and the same rate in residential. Much higher in MN.

        1. So we should keep taxes low on the wealthy so they deign to stay in the state, paying low taxes that will help support . . . what, exactly? Private golf courses?

          That does not even come close to making sense.

          “The larger issue is corporate income taxes.”

          The IRS says that nearly 2/3 of the corporations in the United States are S corporations, paying no corporate income tax.

          1. A sub S flows to your individual income tax returns. Which are highly taxed in MN. The advantage of an S is one avoids double taxation, while maintaining limited liability protection.
            It sounds like you think taxing the same dollar twice is acceptable.

            1. “Dollars” are not taxed, and haven’t been taxed since the sovereign gave up on clip pieces out of coins. Income taxes are taxes on the acquisition of money, not on the money itself. If a corporation – a separate legal entity – acquires income, it pays taxes. If it distributes part of that income to shareholders, the shareholders – separate legal entities – pay taxes on it. Subchapter S corporations are a break for smaller businesses that recognizes that the line between shareholders and corporation is often indistinct.

              I have been hearing the “double taxation” nonsense for more years than I care to recall. Calling corporate income taxes double taxation makes about as much sense as me claiming that a tax on my income is “double taxation,” since my clients already paid taxes on it.

        2. What do we do when folks with high incomes die? Fold up shop and collapse? They’re replaced, just like every other human on planet earth. I just can’t understand why this concept is so challenging for some, what is it that convinces them that they are so very special?

        3. You get what you pay for.

          I grew up in WI, but moved here for better job opportunities & the resulting quality of life. From my perspective, there is a huge ROI here, where the investment is my tax burden. The math may be different for others, who are free to make their own choices. Isn’t that a wonderful thing?

          It amuses me when people claim the business environment is so much better in other states. Yet we’re home to multiple multinational conglomerates across a very diverse set of industries. It seems they too recognize that you get what you pay for.

  8. MN appears oblivious to the tax burden on retired seniors. MN is one of only 13 states that tax Social Security. Many states minimize the property tax burden on seniors by limiting property tax increases up to the CPI increase with a 3% maximum increase. Many states give extra tax credits as one ages beyond 65 years old. It’s as though MN prefers to have retired seniors move out of MN.

    1. Many small communities rely quite heavily on property taxes. Many small communities also have a higher population of older people (especially the Arrowhead region and the counties directly west of the Twin cities bordering SD). Minnesota’s average age is increasing, and the pool of people above 65 is increasing. If the state limits property taxes, where do you propose we make up for it? I’m not saying that we shouldn’t take into consideration ways to reduce burdens on those with fixed incomes, but I wonder what the solution is, especially since those small communities also rely quite heavily on subsidies from their urban fellows. Something’s gotta give.

  9. It’s sad that there are still some conservatives who believe that we pay taxes for specific services to ourselves. It doesn’t work that way, nor should it.

    We pay income taxes to share benefits in common–all Minnesotans together (like, ideally, all Americans, together, with federal taxes). Good government, for one. Good roads, good bridges that don’t collapse during rush hour, good schools for all. Safety nets for those who struggle. Services that help our neighbors so we don’t have to live in a world that has folks suffering all around us.

    I like the idea that I am able to pay taxes for things that make Minnesota a way better place to live than some other states. And I don’t feel at all mistreated by a progressive income tax schedule.

    Nobody at the upper income level is exactly “suffering,” folks!

    1. That’s a great argument for a flat tax system. We all benefit from the roads, schools, court systems etc. equally, and so we should all pay the same amount just like we all pay the same for a loaf of bread or a gallon of gas. After all, the purpose of taxation is to pay for the cost of government. Some people seem to believe it should be a system for leveling the economic playing field but that was a Marxist notion, not consistent with being a free society.

      1. “We all benefit from the roads, schools, court systems etc. equally . . .”

        No, we don’t. The wealthy are more likely to use the court system to resolve disputes or vindicate their rights (how long did Bill Cooper tie up the courts because he didn’t want to pay a ticket for speeding in his snowmobile on Lake Minnetonka?).

        1. This isn’t a strong argument. Who is more likely to use the public schools? people of modest means or the rich who can and may use private schools? What’s the rate of calling for emergency services in North Minneapolis vs North Oaks?

          No doubt that the progressive tax scheme means upper income MN taxpayers are paying a disproportionate level fo the budget compared to to the services they receive. That’s not to say it’s not Ok that it happens that way, the premise that the wealthy support services for low income residents is fine, but dont’ pretend it’s not the case.

          1. “Who is more likely to use the public schools?”

            Public schools are meant to be a benefit of the entire population, regardless of whether their children attend them or not. The drafters of the Minnesota Constitution thought that “[t]he stability of a republican form of government depend[s] mainly upon the intelligence of the people . . .” We all benefit from an educated citizenry. If we accept the argument put forth that the real purpose of public education is to turn the little blighters into compliant employees, the benefit of the wealthy is even more apparent.

            “What’s the rate of calling for emergency services in North Minneapolis vs North Oaks?”

            Whose property is being protected by the police and by the courts? The wealthy have more at stake in maintaining law and order.

      2. a) Why is that inconsistent?
        b) I would argue that, if you add all state and local taxes together, Minnesota’s tax system is regressive, not progressive. I remember when the flat tax was fashionable among conservatives. You don’t hear much about it anymore because it would require more progressive measures to achieve. The rich pay a lower percentage of their income than average.

  10. Do we ever pay enough taxes to satisfy progressives? They always seem to think up reasons why we should give more money to the government. How about they clean up the problems and fraud in Health and Human Services first?

  11. “…over-reliance on wealth taxes has its own dangers, since that too can be volatile.” Two issues with this statement:
    Top-tier income and capital gains taxes are not wealth taxes, they’re income taxes on those with high incomes. Our only actual wealth tax that I can think of is the property tax, which doesn’t seem all that volatile.

    Secondly, taxing volatile income sources is not necessarily so risky; it just requires you to amass and retain a large reserve fund for the lean times.

    So the real risk to taxing volatile income sources, like capital gains, high incomes, or corporate profits, is not so much the volatility of the income, but the volatility of the legislature. Republicans are viscerally opposed to allowing the state to amass a large reserve fund, and they try to raid it whenever possible. When the electoral process doesn’t give them the small government they want, they resort to fiscal sabotage.

    The electoral process in Minnesota has not produced a small, cheap government, but a high-tax and high service government. Conservatives like to call Minnesota a tax island, but we’re also the region’s island of prosperity. Funny how that works.

    1. John,
      Are our schools better? Are our roads better? Is our police force better? Are our huge state employees complex better than neighboring state employees? What are we getting from our state government that differentiates Minnesota from neighboring states? We do pay higher taxes, so there should be a noted difference in Minnesota’s quality of life. We spend 16+ Billion on welfare programs ($2,800 spending per capita), 5th highest in the country. All I hear is how we need to spend more. I live in a few different states throughout the year, I don’t see the huge difference.

  12. I am not alone in believing both federal and state tax on social security payments that have already been taxed once are unfair. I am almost 72 and every year i have had to pay tthouands at tax time, mostly because i am getting my social secury deductions returned to me, but only with a major burden of retaxation!
    I am still working because health issues have prevented paying off our house even though I’ve had a pretty decent income most of my life.
    It is greatly disturbing to me that legislators gave in to the retaxation of their elders trying to make ends meet in their fading years.

    1. So the private sectors inability to provide affordable healthcare, or a wage consummate with living expenses, has resulted in a situation where you are unable to retire. Therefore we should reward it, and punish good governance in retaliation? If it wasn’t so sad, it’d be hilarious.

    2. I find it silly that we tax “income” received that was generated by taxes (thanks, Alan Greenspan!). Why tax SS or unemployment? It seems counterproductive and an unnecessary expense. I wonder how much work and resources would be saved if SS and unemployment were just disbursed the amount that they would have been if we taxed them rather than actually taxing them. That said, it’s not a double taxation. You don’t get taxed on the money you put into SS or unemployment, it IS the tax. It’s a government enforced retirement account that gets taxed once–when it comes out. It actually earns money while hanging out in government hands (about 2.5% annually). Unfortunately, that savings account has had a negative flow for some time now due to capping the income taxable for SS combined with Boomers retiring at a faster rate than new earners come online. That is, Boomers never put enough in to cover themselves, even with interest earned, so the rest of us are going to be covering for their shortfall starting very soon (this year, it appears). So, it’s actually a negative tax. At least for the Boomers. The rest of us…not so much.

    3. It seems to me if your SS benefit is small enough to put you in the lowest tax bracket, then you’ll pay little in income tax on this benefit anyways. If you supplement your SS with other taxable retirement and have income that places you in a top tax bracket, why should you not pay the full top bracket rate like everyone else?

      I would point out that SS taxes also pay for disability benefits. 18% of SS benefits are paid to disabled workers, their dependents and survivors. It should not be looked at like a personal 401k account. It is a safety net.

      Although you paid taxes on this deferral over your employment, your employer did not on their matching amount. Today’s average retiree is likely to receive about 50% more in benefits than they originally contributed. Had they retired in the 80’s they would have received 5x what they contributed. Young workers today are unlikely to get back even what they paid in unless changes are made to the system.

  13. Minnesota doesn’t have a tax problem. We have a spending problem.

    All the replies above mention things like roads, bridges, and schools for all the good things that our taxes pay for. Roads and bridges should be funded via a gas tax. Education was supposed to be funded via property taxes.

    The best point made in this article is that the budget surplus is based on a lot of one time revenue. That means we should not be expanding spending now because in the future that money will not be there.

    Also, all that money the Federal Government is sending Minnesota? That is money that our kids and grandkids will have to repay at some point. The Feds don’t have a surplus to dole out. They are borrowing all that money.

    1. At least that money is to help people with the pandemic, unlike say, Trump’s tax cuts for the rich.

      I think we can all agree that irresponsible Republican budgeting has left future generations with a big mess.

      1. Trump tax cuts helped the rich and they also helped the poor
        Precovid
        Black male unemployment the lowest ever since the FEDs started keeping records
        4 million left poverty
        Average income increased more in one year under Trump than 8 years of Obama

        More of MN Fortune 500 were started before 1900 than have been started since 1950. Fortune 500 compnaies leave MN they don’t move. Not one fortune 500 company has moved to MN since 1950.

        Millionaires in in over 20 states pay a lower tax rate than lowest tax rate in MN

        MN is going to lose 1 representative in the US Housee because more people prefer to live somewhere other than MN. If MN was a great place to live and work it would be gaining a representative not losing one. Died in the wool democrats in the Twin Cities have brainwashed each other and themselves that MN is a great place to live. It might be if you are white, but it is a bad place if you are a minority

  14. There is another part to the State’s budget and economy. To paraphrase James Carville: It’s the spending, stupid. (Or maybe the stupid spending.)

    1. How do you think the state budget is set? Is there some cabal of Jesuits and Freemasons meeting in secret, deciding to spend money for no reason other than they like to do it? Or is it the product of competing demands by elected officials made in response to the demands of their constituents?

      When Gerald Ford was in Congress, he defined wasteful spending as any money spent outside of Grand Rapids, Michigan. Everyone likes to complain about money spent on the other guy. No one wants to the first to give up their share.

      1. I know exactly how the budget is set.

        I also know why the dems are called the party of “tax and spend.”

        I am also sure you support the Biden covid relief spending plan.

        And I know why James Carville said ” It’s the spending, stupid. (Or maybe the stupid spending.)”

        1. So you’d rather there be profligate “borrowing and spending” as that is the mantra of the politicians YOU support. Quick question, which governmental service, that benefits you personally, are you willing to sacrifice in the name of “fiscal responsibility”?

        2. First, you’re misquoting James Carville.

          Second, if you know how the budget is set, you can probably deduce that it appears to be the will of the people that the budget be as high as it is. Sure, in the abstract, just about everyone will grouse about it, but when you get down to cases, no one wants the cuts; at least, not the ones that benefit them.

          It’s not the DFL imposing this on the people. If the people really objected to high spending as much as they claim to, they would vote the high spenders out of office. It’s that simple.

          “I am also sure you support the Biden covid relief spending plan.”

          So does most of America. More would probably support it if you took the name “Biden” off of it (if it were the “Trump Plan,” it would be regarded by conservatives as something even more sacred than the Gospels).

          1. A family of 4 making less than $ 140,000 can get over 14K from the latest covid relief bill. Is that money well spent? People who did not lose their jobs, or have any meaningful impact ( financially ) from covid will get a check from the federal government. I truly support helping people who have had, and will continue to have financial problems from covid. But just writing checks to everyone, hoping to stimulate the economy is absolutely the definition of pure pork. Inflation is on the rise, and will continue until we go back into yet another self induced recession.

            1. The 14k includes the expanded child tax credit.

              Yes, I think providing aid to families with children is a good idea. If we have, as one noted commentator puts it, “too many poor people” this would seem like an excellent first step.

        3. I know why the GOP us called the party if perpetual red ink and endless deficits.

          But that’s what you get when the only management style you know is management by crisis.

        4. Not the Carville is worth quoting, but since you seem to revere him remember he also said “Republicans want smaller government for the same reason crooks want fewer cops; it’s easier to get away with murder.”

  15. [Google]
    Oliver Wendell Holmes, former Justice of the United States Supreme Court, said, “Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society.”

    In some respects, a “civilized society” is the rationale for government in the first place.”

  16. It’s my understanding that progressive income taxation is based upon the principle of “marginal utility” which holds that money reaches a point of diminishing enjoy the more you have of it. The marginal dollar is less valuable to a wealthy person that to a poor person. For this reason, marginal rates on income were very high at one point, as high as 90%, on large incomes with declining rates on smaller incomes. With all the various deductions, like for capital gains, which aren’t taxed until realized, and depreciation, wealthy people can avoid or at least postpone income taxes by making capital investments.

    Underlying this marginal utility principle is a deeper principle that a society which does not have the great disparities in income and wealth as ours does today is a happier and more balanced society. There’s empirical evidence to support this. Denmark is a much more egalitarian society that the US and Danes are far happier in their society that Americans, who seem to get unhappier and angrier with the greater financial wealth they or “we” have where it is concentrated among a relative few.

    Anyway, I’ve come to conclude that most of the USA’s financial wealth, stated in pecuniary terms, is so disproportionately allocated that it can no longer represent anything but imaginary and fictitious “wealth”. How can anyone be a millionaire, a billioniare, except in some totally make-believe sense? When will we come to our collective senses and stop being taken in by the pretense?

    1. Jon, your utopia of Denmark has less than 6 million people and they have tightened their immigration laws substantially the past 5 years. Their society can’t support immigrants and cut benefits for immigrants by 45%. They seize any assets over $1,450 from asylum seekers to pay for the welfare. They have done everything possible to deter asylum seekers from coming into their country. To compare the USA to a country of 6 million is ridiculous.

      1. Danish immigration policies are completely irrelevant and beside the point. Which is that Danes and people who live in other Scandinavian countries are taxed at the margin at far higher rates than people in the United States. Because of, not in spite of, their taxes help support a decent standard of living for all members of society. There’s a far lower spread between rich and poor in these countries. Danes and for that matter residents of other Scandinavian countries are by all accounts happier than Americans. From which I maintain that US taxes need to go way up again at the margin. I have no problem with the rich until they come to own or think they own the government, which in the US they do.

        1. The is really a simple “problem”. We have way too many poor people. You could tax the Uber wealthy at 100% and you still couldn’t raise the standard of living for lower income people. Many have no skills or education beyond HS ( if that) . Besides providing a universal income, you just can’t raise their standard of living high enough. We are screwed. Scandinavian countries have always valued education. And it is indeed a fact that immigrating there is virtually unheard of. So when you start out with a well educated society, and don’t take in everybody who has made it here across the southern borders, it’s easy to have a country like they have. BTW, the only way you can get in Canada is to have a ton of money. That’s a fact. We seem to only be interested in the people that have none. And you wonder why we are in the pickle we are.

      2. Of course, Jon was not talking about immigration. He stated:

        “Underlying this marginal utility principle is a deeper principle that a society which does not have the great disparities in income and wealth as ours does today is a happier and more balanced society.”

        Which basically gets to Jeff Bezos would probably be just as happy if he made 1 billion last month as he is with his 30 billion. And that is the principle of a progressive tax system: the topic at hand….

  17. In true Republican thought:

    “You get what you pay for”

    I’ll pay top ten taxes for top ten results:

    Ten States with the Best Quality of Life
    Washington. Washington state has the highest quality of life in all 50 states. …
    New Hampshire. …
    Minnesota. …
    Utah. …
    Vermont. …
    Maryland. …
    Virginia. …
    Massachusetts.

    According to The Trust for Public Land, the 10 highest ranking park systems in the United States are:
    Minneapolis, Minnesota: 85.3.
    Washington, D.C.: 83.3.
    Saint Paul, Minnesota: 82.5.
    Arlington, Virginia: 81.5.
    Cincinnati: 80.6.
    Portland, Oregon: 79.8.
    Irvine, California: 79.6.
    San Francisco: 78.9.

    USA Today Top Rated Education Systems by State:

    10. Minnesota
    High school graduation rate: 82.2% (16th lowest)
    Public school spending: $12,692 per pupil (22nd highest)
    8th grade NAEP proficiency: 47.8% (math) 39.7% (reading)
    Adults with at least a bachelor’s degree: 34.8% (11th highest)
    Adults 25-64 with incomes at or above national median: 58.1% (6th highest)

    1. I wonder why so many red states find themselves ranked so low, Joe? Or is it that you “just don’t see it”?

      1. Forgive him, when one never leaves the gated retirement enclave, how is one to know the rest of the state isn’t as opulent?

    2. Then I wonder why Texas and Florida have the highest rates of new residents? Minnesota? I don’t think so.

      1. The growth rate of Florida is about 1%, the #5 fastest population growth in the country! But it’s growing old. It’s the #2 oldest population with over 20% of its population over 65. Working age people aren’t moving to Florida. Texas, maybe (and probably not from Minnesota). But, Minnesota has the highest number of Fortune 500 companies per capita, and in terms of opportunity (combo of educational opportunity, affordability, and good pay for good work), Minnesota is #2. Florida is #33 and Texas is #39. In other words, generally, the population can afford to pay the taxes here because the general population is better off here. Could that change? Yep. But right now and in the most reasonably defined future, Florida is not where it’s at. We don’t begrudge old bones extra sun and warmth, but don’t get too cocky. The people here have it better while they’re still contributing to GDP.

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