As Minnesota grapples with a worst-in-the-nation surge of COVID-19 cases, the response from Gov. Tim Walz will look quite different compared to how he handled the spike last winter.
Speaking to reporters by phone Wednesday from a trade mission in Finland, Walz said that another state of peacetime emergency to unilaterally institute a mask mandate or restrict bars and restaurants would be politically costly — and not particularly effective.
And as the Republican-led Senate threatens to remove his health commissioner, Walz downplayed the chances of turning to the Legislature for a special session in order to alter regulations meant to ease the burden on the medical system.
Instead, Walz said he’s focusing on the few things left in his control, such as expanding eligibility for COVID-19 vaccine boosters and using his platform as governor to ask people to get vaccinated and avoid crowds. Walz is also spending money from Minnesota’s share of the American Rescue Plan on pandemic response. Lawmakers in June set aside $500 million from that federal stimulus plan for Walz to use.
In a statement Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Jeremy Miller, R-Winona, said the Senate GOP remains “ready to come back for a special session.”
“The governor is the only person who can call a special session and we look forward to continuing discussions with the governor when he gets back from his trade mission,” he said.
Walz, however, said he’s “getting no help from the Senate.”
“Because of that, I’m continuing to focus on the tools that will make the biggest difference and that’s where I’m going to stay,” Walz said. “Vaccines, boosters, and getting these 5-to-11-year olds done is the most effective thing we can do.”
Where things stand on emergency powers
Last winter, as hospitals filled to the brim with COVID-19 patients and deaths hit record highs, Walz sharply limited gatherings and businesses. The governor had authority through his peacetime state of emergency to act on his own, though many Republicans argued Walz should have relinquished his power. Vaccines were just arriving in Minnesota, and the pandemic eventually eased as more people got shots.
Now, Walz said that immunity is waning amid a spike in cases among the unvaccinated. Some hospitals, like the CentraCare system in St. Cloud, are pleading with Minnesotans to get vaccinated and take precautions to slow the spread of COVID-19 as they struggle with full hospitals and staffing shortages. Only 47 intensive care beds were open Wednesday to Minnesota patients, according to the governor’s office.
Still, Walz all but ruled out declaring another peacetime emergency to dial up new regulations via executive order. For starters, Walz said most people are vaccinated, which does still offer significant protection against severe cases of COVID-19. Announcing new executive orders also comes “at a heavy price with the Republican Senators,” he said, and aren’t guaranteed to be followed by the general public.
Walz said if he thought ordering a new state of emergency would save lives, he would do it. “What percentage of people would simply not do a mask mandate?” Walz said. “And at this point in time, with 76 percent of people vaccinated and the vast majority have done the right thing, it’s not those people that it’s hitting. It’s the unvaccinated in many cases that are spreading or those who are unable to be vaccinated.”
But Walz also said his administration isn’t doing nothing. They have set up more free testing and vaccination sites lately and have rolled out vaccines to children ages 5-to-11. Walz has put the National Guard on alert to help with long-term care staffing issues, and directed money from Minnesota’s share of the American Rescue plan to help contract staff to help add capacity to long-term care facilities and help ease staffing shortages at hospitals, among other things.
The governor also said Wednesday the federal government accepted a request for emergency staffing help and will send next week two medical teams — each with 22 people — from the Department of Defense to spell doctors and nurses at the Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis and St. Cloud Hospital.
The Walz administration also plans to open on Monday a third “alternative care site,” where older patients can be treated at a long-term care facility rather than a hospital to free up space at hospitals. And the governor said hospitals can do things on their own without his direction, such as limiting some less urgent treatments and surgeries. Walz had ordered such measures early in the pandemic.
Minnesota Department of Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm said Tuesday the state plans to soon offer booster doses to all adult Minnesotans who are at least six months past their second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, perhaps before the federal government approves the extra shots for much of the general public. “The expansion of boosters to everyone will make a difference,” Walz said.
No special session?
In early October, Walz sent a pandemic to-do list to state lawmakers, asking them to pass a series of measures primarily aimed at easing the burden on hospitals and long-term care facilities.
“What I need from people is I need them to be vaccinated and I need some relief around some of the regulations and the ability to take the pressure off of the hospitals,” Walz said.
But Walz and lawmakers in the Republican-majority Senate have clashed over a potential special session — which might also include approving extra pay for frontline workers and money for farmers hurt by drought — before legislators convene for their regular session on Jan. 31.
Meanwhile, many Senate Republicans have been frustrated with Walz’s pandemic response, including his ordering of business closures last year and the development of a phone application that displays a person’s vaccination status. In response, they have threatened to remove Malcolm from her position during a special session under the state Senate’s power to confirm, or not confirm, Walz’s appointed commissioners.
The governor and the GOP have traded letters and public statements back and forth for weeks. Last Friday, Walz sent a pre-written agreement to Miller, the Senate Majority Leader, outlining how the governor would want a special session to go. It had an empty space for Miller to sign.
“Pre-signed letters at the end of the week are not how the public expects their government to work,” Miller responded. “Our conversations have provided a number of ways to deliver bonus checks for frontline workers, drought relief, and COVID waivers. This kind of publicity stunt leaves me worried Democrats aren’t serious about having a special session at all.”
On Wednesday, Walz said again the cost of losing Malcolm was not worth what could be accomplished in a special session, which means the already dim prospect of a special session has been all but snuffed out.
“It’s not really a negotiation, it’s a threat that hangs over me that would cripple our response to COVID and I’m not going to let it happen,” Walz said. “If I don’t have the lead person in charge of vaccinations at a time when we’re peaking — the lead person in charge of decompressing hospitals — the lead person in charge of testing at a time when we need this, that’s the most serious threat to our response that we can have.”
So don’t folks find this a little ludicrous? On one hand you got Gazelka and a bunch of other “R’s” packing heat when they go to the capital, they are afraid of boogeymen popping up in the capital or in the nearby parking lot, something that basically never happens. On the other hand a factually known and verified killer Covid, over 750,000 in the US and counting, they are screaming about people’s rights not to get vaccinated, or wear masks, so they can in essence infect anyone they come in contact with and kill them. Too much difficulty to wear a 1 oz mask, but make sure you have an 8 pound Glock packed on your waist for the boogeyman! You can’t make this stuff up!
It seems to me that the solution is to have the special session. If Malcolm is removed then I think that Walz could simply re-appoint her. Am I missing something? Is a commissioner who has been removed unable to serve in that position for a period of time?
He can’t re-appoint her.
Appoint her or hire her for another position and rewrite the job desc. to fit her.
Why would she want to, her partner died while dealing with this nonsense, didn’t have time to grieve and had to put up with GOP lies. This is a thankless job, but it her poor fortune that most of the GOP voters are devoid of compassion.
I didn’t know that. That is unspeakably sad. My heart goes out to her.
This is where the disconnect from regular people happens. One year ago regular folks were told to get 2 shots of vaccine and you would be free from getting COViD or spreading COViD. Now regular folks are told that the vaccine is not going to stop you from getting or spreading COViD but will help with symptoms. Cases all over the country of vaccinated folks getting the virus and being hospitalized are being reported. Vermont with the highest vaccination rate in the country, is having an outbreak of vaccinated folks flood hospitals. Michigan is having the same issues.
Bottom line is folks are tired of moving goal posts. Vaccine will prevent COViD, 2 weeks to slow the spread, children and asymptomatic people spread disease, lockdowns work, virus lives on surfaces, no such thing as natural immunity, vaccination will be effective for years, none of this has proven to be true.
The Leftists plea to get vaccinated to “help” your neighbor is no longer being heard because vaccinated people get and spread COViD just like unvaccinated. It is coming down to a personal choice of whether you want the vaccine or not, as it should be. The “help” everyone is just another fallacy of this COViD pandemic. How do you think the Smallpox vaccine would have been received if it did not stop you from getting Smallpox?
Do you not understand that this is a new disease that develops new strains (that is called evolution) and that doctors and scientists are working their butts off tge bettter understand it, prevent and treat it. Whenever they get new information they share it and use it? That is why more people are avoiding infection, hospitalization and death, a very good thing. They are depending on regular folks to pay attention, not think that what was thought previously was all right. We had no way of knowing how long the shots would last, so they recommended boosters when were found they were needed. What they have said all along is take precautions and get vaccinated. Those who refuse are about 20 times as likely to be hospitalized and die than the vaccinated. They also carry more of the virus and by not masking are doing the most to spread it. Don’t nitpick experts about providing updates when you ignored their recommendations.
Remember Republicans don’t believe in evolution.
If the folks had gotten vaccinated when and how any sensible person would have (except the few with medical issues against vaccination) we would not be here. Delta would not have taken hold. It’s the unvaccinated blowhards that have allowed COVID to reach this level. That’s not leftist, but science. They have created this mess. We did not need to be here.
Almost every word of this is false. And this is why Covid is still around.
Sadly, I fear covid will be with us for a long time, but it has been MUCH worse now than it should have been. We had a pretty darn good vaccine. But too many refuse to use it, and they are generally in the same area leaving lots of susceptible hosts to propagate new variants
This is straight up misinformation. In Vermont, as elsewhere, unvaccinated people are much more likely to get infected, spread the disease, end up in the hospital, and die than vaccinated people.
Here is information from vtdigger.org:
“The gap between unvaccinated and vaccinated Vermonters has changed during the Delta surge. Cases rose from 21 per 100,000 vaccinated Vermonters as of July 31 to 138 now, while unvaccinated cases have gone from 83 to 560 per 100,000 people. Similarly, hospitalizations for unvaccinated Vermonters have risen from 3 to 24 per 100,000 people during the Delta surge, while breakthrough hospitalizations have risen from 0.47 to 6.”
What a fact challenged comment. Not one single person has ever said this miraculous vaccine was perfect. Vaccinated people remain FAR less likely to become infected, hospitalized or die from Covid. Sorry if you’re tired of it, but moving the goalposts is how it works when dealing with a new disease. Enormous gains have been made very quickly in discovering what make this virus tick as well as how to treat it. And the smallpox vaccine was also a miraculous not-perfect lifesaver which was resisted by many at the time.
Change and grey areas have always been bug a boos for far right conservatives, haven’t they Joe.
Those leftists got vaccinated. You ‘righties’ didn’t and the virus mutated and now more people have died. This was never about vaccines, it was just a political wedge issue for you low info voters, yes you Joe, who get info from an entetainment network devoted to keeping its billionaire owner rich.
And like all Republican policies, people have died. No special session Joe- you and your ilk own this intentional slaughter for political gain. I get dozens of calls a week to work in rural hospitals because of the doctor shortage. My compassion for the stupid is gone. Lay in your own bed.
Remind me- The delta variant originated in which Republican stronghold? Im all for getting vaccinated but this fantasy of Republicans creating the delta variant is quite silly. By that logic I suppose I should hold Al Sharpton, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and every other race hustler responsible for every minority with vaccine hesitancy?
They didn’t create it, but they didn’t do a d@mn thing to slow down its spread.
Well put, Joe. We are having a surge at the exact same time as we did last year yet there has been little preparation for it. Remember Florida’s summer (seasonal) surge and DeSantis getting slammed for not instituting lockdowns and mask mandates? Well, here we go in Minnesota with our fall (seasonal) surge.
Mr. Smith, tell us who get to be considered “regular people” and “regular folks.” Pretty much all the people I know are “regular people,” and we’re not having that much trouble understanding that we’re processing evolving information, and doing our best to be responsible to each other, as members of a community acting in concert to defeat a threat. Here in our den of urban pathology.
What a crazy world we live in. Why don’t the real stats get published and waved at people to show the benefits of getting vaccinated? We have done a terrible job selling the vaccine to people. The best we can do now is threaten and berate people, which we have figured out has no impact whatsoever and actually causes many to resist more. The policy reaches that the Biden administration has done, using OSHA to enforce the vaccine mandate isn’t going anywhere either.
“crazy world we live in…”
Speak for yourself, Mr. weir. Anyone who thinks that “we” have done “a terrible job selling the vaccine to people” or that “the benefits of getting vaccinated” haven’t been daily trumpeted (for months now!) by responsible print and broadcast media nationwide is only betraying the alternate “news” sources they consume, apparently exclusively.
And I will direct you to a certain “conservative” commenter above to see the final resolution of that intellectual malady….
The elections are a year away and things on a nationwide view don’t look good for Dems.
MN will have a tight Gov’s race. If he shuts its down and plays the omniscient all powerful ruler on us, he’s bound to lose the election.
He ain’t stupid, there will be no state of emergency.
Wait a minute – Walz “plays the omniscient all powerful ruler on us…”
What in the world are you talking about? When the pandemic hit, he was in a position to order a statewide lockdown at the best advice of people in science and medicine, and a bunch of yahoos cried “personal rights” and that’s what let this awful thing spread. That is precisely why we are still here. It wasn’t the governor on an ego trip; it was the governor being a grownup in a state of children of all ages (not to disrespect children in the 0-18 range).
It is precisely because a lot of people were whining about personal rights and calling the governor a dictator that Gazelka and company are singing that song. They are trying to step in front of an unthinking mob and let them determine where our state is going to go.
If Walz loses politically it will be regrettable, but I will be damn proud that in Minnesota at least we had someone in there with common sense.
Thank you, Gov. Walz, for actual leadership. Grow up, Republicans. Come back to the table when you’re through with your adolescent snit.
Particularly if you were immigrants or a minority because we all know how their “god
“ feels about people not like them. The small caps were on purpose because they are not religious, they are racist and xenophobic and none of that is in the Bible.
This is the correct answer to the question.
Jan Malcolm’s job is more important than front-line workers getting paid (about a year late) and drought-stricken farmers getting aid? Wow! By the way, did commissioner Malcolm recommend not filling the stadium this Sunday when the Vikings play the Packers? Minnesota leads the nation in infection percentage after all.
I think we can all agree that Minnesota Republicans are an absolute disgrace.
I was blaming Governor Walz, so, no, not everyone agrees about the GOP…
For those of you that are concerned for life, please get vaccinated and wear a mask when appropriate to save lives. Seek to defend the right to life of all human beings. All members of the human family deserve our respect and protection.
Europe also is undergoing a fourth wave. It be Paul Gazelkas fault.
The point being is we can and should have done better, but covid is not going away. Reducing it is the best we can do
The problem with debate game re-enactors like Mr. Smith it they never get tired of being wrong, and they’re impervious to learning. You can only abandon so much integrity before you become incapable of intelligent participation, so you see this constant recycling of garbage claims about everything from vaccines to masks… to government spending and climate change. This stuff would be comical if it didn’t inflict so much death, suffering, and destruction.
The problem with Fascist Republican/Trump supporters etc. is that they’ve spent decades trying to paralyze the government with these specious debates games… and they finally succeeded… right in the middle of the worse pandemic in 100 years. The fact that they want to celebrate their accomplishment and think this all good fun betrays a fundamental sociopathic tendency. At a time when we desperately need a coordinated and effective response, our presidents and governors can’t even take common sense measures because Republicans can’t be trusted to act like adults.
I’m not a historian but I actually think this may be the first time in MN history that a governor cannot call the legislature together because they’ll use the opportunity to attack the government. A bunch of guys that exercise complete discipline in every party line vote cast in the last 15+ years suddenly can’t guarantee their members won’t use a special session to attack an appointee… because they have no control over their party. Whatever.
Regarding this ongoing effort to characterize Walz as some kind of dictator… I think it’s important to recognize this as the Fascist propaganda rhetoric that it is.
The idea behind rhetoric like this is to manufacture a threat that obscures your own agenda by pointing to someone else as if THEY are pursuing your own agenda. The clearest example we have of this is the Nazi claims that it was the Jews not themselves who had designs for worldwide conquest. You manufacture an extreme threat that justifies your own extreme response hoping to manipulate the population into accepting YOUR dictatorial powers. It’s a neat trick when it works, people embrace Fascism in order to prevent Fascism.
All you have to do is ask yourself why anyone would think that Walz is greater dictator than DeSantis? And of course when Trump supporters accuse someone else of dictatorial designs you know your in the twilight zone.
I’m reminded, yet again, that every GOP accusation, insult, and projection is a confession and admission every time. Every one, every time. The list is very long…
Yes, and of course I forgot to mention the biggest current example which is: “Stop the Steal”… the only people planning and trying to steal the election are the Fascists. They’ve clearly manufactured a myth to obscure they own design.
I agree with the no lockdown stance that Walz currently has, whatever his motivations are. The stated purpose of the lockdowns was to allow for the medical professionals/hospitals to get ready for the inevitable surges that will happen with Covid. We are 18-19 months into this pandemic, if the hospitals are not ready for surges by now, they never will be.
The game changer will be IF (I stress IF) the Merck and/or Pfizer prophylaxis pills currently in trials actually work. I am sure that those struck with Covid that end up hospitalized won’t be too picky about the quality of the research done on the pill when given the option to take the pill to reduce their symptoms. If (stressing the IF) the pills work, that will shorten/lessen hospital stays, hopefully reduce deaths, and life can get back to some kind of normal. The pills are offering a similar protection to the vaccines, but the issue with the vaccine is that you have to take it before you get Covid (when you are healthy). The pills should work when you are sick, and my guess is that there will be less friction to taking a pill by someone in the hospital due to Covid who has resisted the vaccine.
I’m afraid Mr. Schmid is mistaken on all accounts here. The time FRAME for the original lock-down was based on the time it would take to “stand-up” the response infrastructure (remember that was two years ago), but the actual reason for the lock down was containment of infection and limiting transmission. “Lock downs” are about stopping transmission, it’s not a coincidence that from restaurants to gyms, to schools, whenever we release lock downs and “open up” we’ve seen surges in infection, illness, and death. This why lock-downs are being and have been re-implemented, they stop transmission, they work. We’re having to resort to them again now because so many people refused to get vaccinated.
There pills Mr. Schmid is referring to are not prophylaxis, they’re therapeutics, they do not serve the same function as vaccines. Vaccines prevent illness or serious illness, therapeutics treat illness. Treating AFTER the fact is not the same as prevention, and it’s much riskier. It’s always better to prevent illness if you can than treat it. Effective treatment should shorten and maybe even prevent hospitalization, and they should lower fatality significantly.
Lock down and mandates would absolutely have pushed our numbers down, saved lives, and kept people out of the hospital, and they would do so now… but that’s just not going to happen.
What will happen is we’ll watch COVID burn through the unvaccinated population and a few breakthrough vaccinated cases until it runs out of new people to infect. It’s sad that so many people will unnecessarily get sick and die, but the train left station months ago so here we are.
Effective treatment saves lives ( by the way, we already know this pills work), but therapy needs to begin upon the earliest signs of illness to be completely effective, and a lot of people will that optimum window of opportunity.
COVID will continue to prey upon the unvaccinated for quite some time because the immunity they get from infection is far less robust and long lasting than vaccination immunity. This means as long as virus is circulating in sufficient strength unvaccinated people will experience more infection and re-infection… i.e. breakthrough infections.
Once this virus drops out of a pandemic stage an into an endemic state, a combination of vaccination boosters and effective treatment should contain outbreaks, as long as a new variant doesn’t emerge. We’ve already seen cases of a new new variant in MN but with any luck it won’t take off like Delta has.
Thank you for the very clear description of the current situation. It is evolving and we need to stay tuned and be ready to adjust course. Meanwhile we need to be thankful to the medical professionals and administrators who are trying to get us through this mess.
“and a few breakthrough vaccinated cases”
Dude! We’re up to 30% of vaccinated people. Time for a new bogeyman.
Tom, you keep trying to play debate games with science and it never ends well.
I assume the 30% figure you’re using here refers to the percentage of all break-through infections but that’s a bogus calculation in terms of rates. The rate of break-through infection among fully vaccinated people is 2.245% and those are the ONLY vaccinated people who are getting infected. The rate of hospitalization among vaccinated is .098% and the rate of death is .016%. Meanwhile the rate of infection and break-though infection, hospitalization, and death, among unvaccinated people is 1000% higher than vaccinated people. 100% of the unvaccinated people who are dying… are unvaccinated. So no… the COVID virus, and pandemic are still the bogeyman here, there’s no need to search for another.
As to the why’s and wherefores of who’s getting infected and re-infected- I’m not going to explain this AGAIN, because no matter now many times myself or someone else explains this, you guys just don’t get it, you just keep trying to play games with the numbers. If we weren’t talking about real human beings who are suffering and dying this wouldn’t even be an interesting discussion.
You assumed wrong. The 30% comes from a recent Strib article about hospitalizations and deaths, where the percentage of vaccinated victims continue to climb. Which is good according to a recent commentary since if everyone were vaccinated, all cases would be from vaccinated people. 100% of cases being vaccinated people is the goal.
Tom , again… you’re wrong, I explained your comment perfectly, you’re misconstruing the information in the Strib article. You can study my comment for a better understanding of the Strib article if you’d like.
Per the article on November15th, 2021, during the week of Oct. 10-16th, of the people hospitalized with COVID-19 30% were vaccinated. That same week there were 47 deaths of vaccinated persons and 44 deaths of unvaccinated persons. Feel free to read the article yourselves.
I don’t know if you don’t understand or are deliberately misconstruing the information, but Paul is right.
That is a whole lotta nope right there. This is how statistics earns the reputation of being worse than lying when manipulated with malintent.
Hospitalization rates in Minnesota (Nov. 23, 2021, covering 5/2-10/17, 2021; https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbt.html):
12-17 year olds — 0.2 per 100k fully vaccinated vs 2.1 per 100k not fully vaccinated — 10.5x higher risk of hospitalization
18-49 year olds — 0.9 per 100k fully vaccinated vs 10.1 per 100k not fully vaccinated — 11.2x higher risk of hospitalization
50-64 year olds — 2.3 per 100k fully vaccinated vs 23.2 per 100k not fully vaccinated — 10.1x higher risk of hospitalization
65+ year olds — 9.7 per 100k fully vaccinated vs 131.6 per 100k not fully vaccinated — 13.5X higher risk of hospitalization
30% of the hospitalizations (NOT 30% of vaccinated; and notably, that percent is FAR lower in ICU and on ventilators) being vaccinated individuals is because there are simply more people vaccinated than unvaccinated. 70% of all Minnesotans 5 years of age and up (80% of those 18 years of age and up) are fully vaccinated. Before the delta variant went around thanks to the anti-vaxxers, that gap was even bigger (18x-22x reduced risk of hospitalization in vaccinated prior to Aug. 1). Fortunately, the vaccine is still pretty good at preventing death (12x-15x reduced risk of death in vaccinated post Aug. 1), limiting death almost entirely to unvaccinated people. Though, there are a few that succumb to medical burden or death even if vaccinated, which is a tragedy and almost entirely the fault of the unvaccinated.
By the way, don’t play the statistics game with people who know how to analyze data. The gaslighting simply doesn’t work.
Just quoted the article. I can’t say if their information is correct. Today’s Strib has a commentary from the President and CEO of HealthPartners which states that if you aren’t vaccinated you have a five times greater chance of contracting the virus. Again, not saying if the statement is true. I try to point out information in an accurate manner while suggesting pretty much nothing. No gaslighting, no trying to influence opinions.
“limiting death almost entirely to unvaccinated people” is no doubt factual, I just re-mention that during the week that was reported in my cite, the number of deaths was 47 vaccinated, 44 unvaccinated.
Tom, you have comprehend the material your reading in order to quote it accurately. Clearly you either failed in that regard, or you misquoted it thinking you could score a debate point.
The quotes are accurate.
Paul, you are totally wrong. The vaccine is not a vaccine in the original language used by Fuaci and NIH/CDC. A vaccine stops you from getting the disease, a therapeutic treats you once you get the disease. The vaccine has proven not to stop you from getting COViD, it mitigates the symptoms somewhat. So if the vaccine does not stop you from getting the virus what is it? It is a therapeutic.
Joe, seriously… you keep embarrassing yourself. If Vaccines were treatments we wouldn’t be looking for effective treatments after the vaccines were developed would we? We would be saving lives and emptying out ICU’s all over the place with vaccinations wouldn’t we?
Meanwhile, treating someone with medication when they’re not even infected does not prevent illness so no matter what direction you approach this from you have not idea what your talking about.
Again, for millionth time… no vaccine is 100% effective so the fact that some people still get sick after vaccination doesn’t prove the vaccine isn’t a vaccine. Some vaccinated people experience mild illness and recover… without any treatment… that’s the advantage of vaccines. The fact that we are years into this pandemic and some people still remain THIS misinformed and uninformed is one of the most bizarre features of this pandemic. The nature and function of vaccines has been discussed and explained ad nauseum and yet people think they can “debate” it. Whatever.
Paul, again you are wrong. “No vaccine is 100%”, this vaccine doesn’t stop 1% of COViD . It is not a vaccine, in the original definition of a vaccine. If a vaccine doesn’t stop COViD at all, what is it? We were told, 16 months ago, that if you got 2 shots you would not get COViD, that was the vaccine approach. Now the CDC came out and said 2 shots will not stop you from getting the virus (not even 1%), it will help you mitigate symptoms. Doctors around the world have recommended many therapeutic treatments to mitigate COViD. None of them are calling them a vaccine.
Joe, it’s always been obvious you have no knowledge or experience with medicine and health care but seriously, do you think we invented a new definition of “vaccine” just for COVID? Do you think we have a different definition of vaccine for every vaccine? The only one trying to figure out what a vaccine is around here is you… and you’re failing. Several vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 exist, and the ones we use in this country are safe and effective, this is a documented fact.
Yes indeed. Now the certified epidemiologists at the CDC/NIH (and all state Health Departments, nationwide!) don’t have a proper understand of the medical definition of “vaccine”. But it’s Dr Internet to the rescue to “properly” explain the matter. Sounds reasonable!
This is a perfect display of the out-of-control egotism that pervades “conservative” thinking…
Pure nonsense. Absolute falsehoods.
Disease (noun): an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally (Merriam-Webster)
That is, a disease is a number of /signs and symptoms/ that negatively impact the function of the diseased. A disease is NOT the same as a virus. COVID-19 is a DISEASE /caused/ by a virus.
Virus (noun): any of a large group of submicroscopic infectious agents that are usually regarded as nonliving extremely complex molecules, that typically contain a protein coat surrounding an RNA or DNA core of genetic material but no semipermeable membrane, that are capable of growth and multiplication only in living cells, and that cause various important diseases in humans, animals, and plants (Merriam-Webster)
That is, a virus is one of a number of agents that CAN cause disease (Merriam-Webster is slightly wrong in suggesting they all cause diseases). Viruses, including SARS-CoV2 (the virus and its variants that cause COVID-19), are infectious agents. Other infectious agents include bacteria, fungi, prions, and the like. Viruses are NOT diseases.
Vaccine (noun): a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body’s immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease (Merriam-Webster)
A vaccine is designed to “teach” the immune system to specifically target disease-causing infectious agents to prevent or reduce disease caused by said infectious agents. Vaccines are typically prophylactic. That is, they are administered prior to development of signs and symptoms of a disease caused by an infectious agent. Most people who have been vaccinated and have been exposed to SARS-CoV2 will show no signs or symptoms of COVID-19. That is, they may become infected with the virus, but their immune system prevents the development of all virus-mediated signs or symptoms. Immune-mediated symptoms (e.g., fever, chills, aches, soreness) may still be present, but tend to be short-lived and non-specific. Some peoples’ immune systems work a little less efficiently, and the virus manages to build sufficient viral load to enable the development of some virus-mediated signs and/or symptoms. However, the vaccine has “taught” the immune system enough to prevent SOME of the symptoms or severity. A smaller group of people have immune systems that have little to no ability to “learn” from prior antigenic exposure (including from vaccines). These individuals will likely develop most or all virus-mediated signs and symptoms if infected. No vaccine is 100% effective (and NO ONE EVER said they did). People who have “breakthrough infections” (a misnomer–they’re breakthrough illnesses) still generally have fewer or less severe signs and/or symptoms, get better faster, and clear the virus faster than unvaccinated and previously recovered individuals. Even though the immune system often slowly “forgets” its lessons from vaccines (thus, the need for boosters in some cases), the SARS-CoV2 vaccines remain highly effective, providing protection against ALL signs and symptoms for 50%+ of all recipients, and MOST signs and symptoms for 80%+ of all recipients, relative to unvaccinated controls, even months after the original vaccination.
The SARS-CoV2 vaccine is a vaccine in every sense of the word. It’s VERY effective, even against most of the new variants. You are wrong, Joe. Full stop.
Thank you Rachel for this comment and the previous one. I no longer have the ambition or energy for this.
VERY effective. For how long? Couldn’t resist.
The biggest problem with effective (but necessarily imperfect) therapeutics is that their existence will, I’m certain, greatly increase the number of aggressively or passively ignorant people who will not remain current on vaccinations. This will lead to a status quo where the virus circulates largely unchecked through the population, variants have a full field to develop, and as a matter of probability the variants, with some measure of regularity, will be outrunning the vaccines and the therapeutics.
Yeah, some people will assume that if we have an effective treatment, they don’t need the vaccine. And those people will die in higher numbers than vaccinated people. And so it goes. We’ll keep telling everyone to get vaccinated, unvaccinated people on their death beds will keep telling people they should have got vaccinated… but whatever. You can’t always save people from themselves.
Instead of endless argument with people with two realities and views of science, let’s focus on a common solution for all American, as all great patriots do.
Let’s make this an issue of self suffiency and responsibility. If you don’t vaccinate, fine. Pay the cost and allow a surcharge on health insurance, 200-300 dollars seems be the right number. Also, ICU availability is prioritized to the vaccinated and those who cannot be vaccinated yet- children, etc,
Simple, fair and involves personal responsibility. Who wouldn’t go for that?
Equal protection would require the same for obesity, smoking, drug use, etc. but the suggestion has merit and should be implemented this next legislative session in Minnesota. Most laws can be implemented by July 1st so we are only months from the solution.
Tom, much like the sub commander who kills his own sub with his own torpedo, I’m afraid you’re sinking into the dark depths. You erstwhile libertarian/republican champions of personal freedom and responsibility have sunk every effort ever made to establish health care as a legal right… therefore Equal Protection doesn’t apply. You wanted personal responsibility… you’ve got it.
Let the courts decide.
This has already been decided.
That the federal mandate is unconstitutional?
Actually Robert triaging out unvaccinated patients is/has been a legitimate discussion for quite some time now. It is actually a legitimate question in medical ethics when so many people are more or less voluntarily sucking up health care resources that others need. At some point it actually makes sense to ask whether or not someone who is ill because they refused free, effective, and widely available vaccines is entitled to ICU beds that vaccinated people urgently need.
If this were simply a matter of punishing those who refuse vaccination it would be an ethical non-starter. Unfortunately the thing that pushes health rationing like this into a legitimate discussion is the fact that these people aren’t just killing themselves. Once infected they transmit and spread infection which leads to illness and death even if the index case has mild symptoms. Furthermore we have limited limited emergency and critical health care resources that are being pushed to their limits. We HAVE had scenarios wherein vaccinated patients in non-COVID medical crises have suffered dangerously delayed or denied critical care because unvaccinated COVID patients (some of whom are going to die anyways) are laying in the ICU beds for days or weeks at a time. The shortage of critical care capacity is particularly acute in outstate MN where we highest levels of vaccine and mask resistance if found. People don’t stop having heart attacks, and strokes, and terminal cancer just because unvaccinated people show up in the ER with COVID 19.
The fact that we’ve been explaining ALL of this for over a year, and the champions of their own bodies have completely ignored all of these warnings raises this to the next level as well.
I can’t guarantee you that difficult choices around this issue haven’t been made anywhere, but fortunately our health care professionals have managed the crises without serious discrimination at this point. With luck this latest surge will die down before we’re forced into vaccine-no vaccine triage, but if this continues all bets are off at some point.
One should always note that the sociopathic behavior of vaccine/mask deniers isn’t just spreading infection, it’s inflicting unimaginable stress and harm on the health care workers who are forced to cope with these surges. This complete disregard for everyone and anyone is killing people; at some point that fact becomes a legitimate ethical problem.
Health insurers should have been amending their plans to deny coverage for all Covid-related hospital costs for any unvaccinated adult who contracts the disease, absent a medical reason. And if they could not contractually do so, then a federal law should have been enacted to expressly allow them the option. The only thing that can possibly motivate these idiots is their wallet.
Our implicit decision to continue coddling the unvaccinated was insane.
Don’t underestimate the power of stupid. A while back in New York they found people selling fake vaccine cards for $1,500. These idiots would rather pay $1.5k out their own pockets than get a free shot.
Thankfully health insurers already penalize smokers although I’m not sure that they just refuse to pay for cancer, COPD treatments etc. Obesity, sedentary lifestyles, etc. are sometimes penalized as well. Could paying for abortions be refused if birth control was not used? Could refusal to pay for hospitalization from illegal drug use be in our futures? These easy solutions could bring down health care costs for everyone. Full steam ahead!
One consequence of “personal responsibility” and “freedom” at a time, Tom!
Tom, really…. you should try to educate yourself more reliably.
Although Obamacare helped, insurance companies continue to deny coverage and treatment on a regular basis in a variety of scenarios for a variety of reasons, so we’re not even talking about hypotheticals here. And it’s well established that insurance companies have legal right to do this by the way; you free market champions have been fighting any attempt to tie their hands with regulations have thus largely succeeded.
The dream of weaponizing health care has long inspired republicans and libertarians who have been promoting this as a way to attack people they don’t like for decades. Don’t pretend this is a liberal or progressive agenda.
We’re talking about a pandemic crises that has killed 5+ million people worldwide, 200k+ Americans, and nearly 10k Minnesotans. Obese people, smokers, and women seeking abortions have never even come close to shutting down our ICUs and emergency rooms. You’re comparison between normal health care and critical shortages is facile.
Finally, apparently you are unaware of the fact that right now the throughout the pandemic, hospitalization and treatment for COVID is 100% covered (by taxpayer subsidy)even if you don’t have insurance. If you want to extend a similar program to pay for abortions I’ll sign off on it. But then I’ve never been shy about my support for a universal health care plan.
“200k+ Americans”
True. It is also true that over 780,000 Americans have died from COVID-19.
Yes, thanks for the correction Tom.
Robert, you are absolutely right. Those who claim “Ah got mah rots!” Should go to the back of the line and let the medical establishment serve those who are making better choices with their lives.
Why are we still in this pandemic mess? You got it. It is a gift from the unvaccinated that is STILL giving.