Minnesotans will be required to wear masks in indoors, including in businesses and public spaces, by order of Gov. Tim Walz, announced Wednesday
The executive order, which Walz had teased earlier in the week, takes effect as the clock turns from Friday to Saturday, and remains in effect until his peacetime emergency has ended. While deaths due to coronavirus remain down and hospitalization rates remain steady, the number of confirmed positive cases has been on the rise lately in Minnesota, as it has been in other states as society has gradually opened back up.
“This is the way, the cheapest, the most effective way for us to open up our businesses, for us to get our kids back in school, for us to keep our grandparents healthy and for us to get back that life that we all miss so much,” Walz said in a press conference announcing the mandate. With the order, Minnesota joins more than half of U.S. states that now have statewide mask mandates, according to CNBC.
Mask rules
Under the executive order, Minnesotans will be required to wear masks in indoor businesses and indoor public settings, including on public transportation. But there are some caveats:
- People are not required to wear masks while eating or drinking.
- Kids ages 5 and under are exempt from the mandate, and the mandate says children under age 2 should not wear masks. Those 2 through 5 are encouraged to wear masks if they can do so without frequently touching or removing the mask.
- People with physical or mental health conditions for whom wearing a mask is not reasonable are exempt.
- Workers are not required to wear face masks if it creates a safety hazard on-the-job.
- Specific rules are laid out for childcare and education settings. Walz is expected to announce more information about how schools will carry out the coming academic year next week.
Businesses are required to comply with the mask mandate by, among other things, posting signs regarding face mask requirements, informing employees and updating COVID-19 preparedness plans, and taking “reasonable efforts” to enforce the requirement. DEED Commissioner Steve Grove said the idea is not for businesses to get confrontational with customers; he said if a customer says they are not wearing a mask for health reasons, that’s where the discussion should end.
Individuals over age 14 who willfully violate the order may be charged with a petty misdemeanor and fined $100 (students would not be fined if they were on school grounds for school purposes). Business owners who willfully violate the order can be charged with a misdemeanor and fined $1,000 or imprisoned for 90 days. Civil penalties can also be imposed.
A full list of rules can be found here. The full text of the executive order, with more specifics, can be found here.
Research finds masks effective
Early on in the pandemic, many public health officials discouraged widespread use of masks, partly due to a shortage of medical masks for health care workers. At that time, less was known about the virus and how masks might affect its spread.
Now, both the Centers for Disease Control and the World Health Organization urge the general public to wear cloth masks. Research suggests masks are an effective method of preventing transmission: According to a research roundup by the University of California-San Francisco, one study used a high-speed camera to measure how far droplets traveled when people talked. Masks caused the droplets to travel less far. One found that when sick people wore face masks, they emitted significantly less virus in droplets and aerosols than without the mask.
There are also real-life examples where masks are believed to have made a difference in transmission. For one, countries where mask-wearing when ill is the norm have had lower death rates.
U.S. states that have mandated masks have seen dropoffs in the daily growth rate of cases. Two hair stylists in Missouri were in contact with 140 clients while they had COVID-19, but all wore masks and nobody else became ill.
A June report by Goldman Sachs found a national mask mandate could buoy the country’s GDP by 5 percent, and Walz has characterized masks — mandated or not — as the best way to ensure Minnesota businesses can stay open.
“The simplest thing we can do to get back in school, the simplest thing we can do to open up and make sure our businesses remain open like they are, and the simplest thing that Republicans can do to make sure that I don’t have to take executive actions around the pandemic, is to wear a mask,” Walz said Tuesday.
In Minnesota, cities including Minneapolis, St. Paul, Rochester, Duluth, Mankato and St. Cloud have passed their own local mask requirements.
Retailers, including Costco, Walmart, Lowe’s, Aldi and Target, among others, are or will require customers to wear face masks in their stores.
Politics of masks
Despite wider adoption and increasing evidence of masks’ efficacy, to mask or not to mask has, for some, become a political question. Nationally, some of that politicization surrounding masks seems to have fallen away as case counts rise again. Some Republican governors have enacted mask requirements. In a Tuesday press briefing, President Donald Trump, who had not previously been supportive of masks, urged Americans to wear them.
Walz said Tuesday he had hoped to gain Republican support to pass a mask mandate at the Legislature, which ended a special session over the weekend.
In a statement Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Paul Gazelka (R-Nisswa) criticized the statewide nature of the coming mask mandate.
He pointed out that 40 out of Minnesota’s 87 counties have seen no COVID-19 deaths, while 35 counties have had less than 10 deaths.
“86% of the state is either in a very safe environment or already taking appropriate measures to mitigate the spread of COVID. The public is wearing masks and many businesses are requiring them. Deaths and ICU use have stabilized to very low numbers without a statewide mask mandate,” he said.
Masks still do not work to prevent the spread of a virus. I’ve cited the CDC, NEJM, and many other sources that all say the same thing. Oxford has 2 epidemiologists that also say so and they even say the lockdowns don’t work. We have dozens of randomized controlled trials showing masks have no effect in preventing influenza (which means any airborne virus). We also have exactly zero science showing covid19 is airborne. All the “experts” can say is “might””could be” “we think” etc and observational studies which are completely worthless as they’re just guesses and not controlled trials.
I’d also challenge such an order on constitutional grounds. There’s no authority to quarantine healthy people and this is basically a quarantine.
Enjoy your fine. Maybe a judge will be a more receptive audience for your nonsense, but let’s be honest, you’ll be wearing a mask like every other bloviating anti-mask crusader because you care FAR more about money than principles.
Which CDC are you looking at? The Centers for Disease Control doesn’t seem to support your claim (see links below).
The idea that enforcing wearing a mask to prevent yourself and others from getting sick is a violation of the constitution when we already require seat belts shows how weak Americans have become. It’s funny that I can wear a mask when I rip boards on a table saw or sand wood and that’s perfectly okay, but if I wear mask to prevent myself, my family or anyone else sick, I’m a weak lib.
China is sitting there laughing at us knowing that we’re too weak to even wear masks when combating a global pandemic. As I said before, if Japan (or now China) bombed Pearl Harbor today, the US would just roll over.
Here’s just one link I found that contradicts your claim:
“JAMA editorial reviews latest science, while case study shows masks prevented COVID spread”
“The finding adds to a growing body of evidence that cloth face coverings provide source control – that is, they help prevent the person wearing the mask from spreading COVID-19 to others. The main protection individuals gain from masking occurs when others in their communities also wear face coverings.”
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article CDC from May 2020.
Key takeaway”Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. ”
NEJM from May 21, 2020 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
“We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”
There is not one single controlled trial out there that shows a cloth mask prevented the spread of a virus, NONE. What the so called experts keep citing are observational studies which are entirely worthless. Those are just guesses at what is going on. Randomized Controlled Trials are real science because they have a control group to compare against.
The FDA has never approved a mask (not even N95) for the prevention of infection by airborne viruses. Even the N95 masks have labeling that says similar.
2 Oxford Epidemiologists admitting masks make no difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3plSbCbkSA&t=263s
Curtis has provided the link to the AASP article as well that clearly disproves the claims that masks work.
The laws of physics also prove it. The holes in your mask are massive compared to the size of the virus. Every time you exhale, droplets go right thru and around your mask. It’s impossible for the mask to stop them.. .it’s like pouring water thru a strainer. The virus is small enough that every single droplet that goes through the mask can carry the virus .. assuming it is airborne (which it’s not). You can test this for yourself by going outside when it’s cold or into a freezer and wearing a mask. Every time you breath out you get a cloud of fog (freezing/frozen droplets that went right thru your mask).
Look at the data on the ground… NM has mandated masks since mid May (over 2 months now) and they have had a big spike in new cases. CA has had a mask mandate in place for over a month, same thing. Reports say that 85% of Mexicans wear masks yet their cases are spiking as well. Medical staff have been infected at ridiculous numbers even though they wear N95 masks and do everything they can to limit airborne exposure. If anyone should be safe from this virus (if it is airborne) it would be medical staff given how much they do to prevent airborne transmission.
I could go on and on with many more links to studies, trials, experts etc but this should suffice. I haven’t even touched on the fact that controlled trials show that the majority of subjects tested had no virus at all coming from their mouths (breath and droplets). Or that MIT found massive amounts of the virus in sewage and even claims they can predict outbreaks before hospitals even know just by testing sewer lines for the virus.
Hoo boy.
1. The idea that there is some controversy over whether this virus is airborne transmitted is crank level. Suffice it to say that the entire world’s infectious disease establishment takes a view contrary to yours, but keep screaming into the wilderness.
2. The May guidance from various organizations were dealing with less information, during a time when there was a shortage of masks for healthcare workers. It’s also not clear if those guidances were addressing protection to the wearer (which is not the point of today’s masking mandate) or with reducing transmission (which is the point today). And to the extent the CDC guidance in May is contrary to what it’s saying today, then obviously today’s guidance supersedes that of May.
3. Two Epidemiologists yapping on Youtube hardly outweighs the conclusions of the experts in the federal government, every state government, the WHO and every other national government. That’s called weighing the evidence. The rightwing doc organization has been adequately dealt with by others.
4. As for appeals to the “laws of physics” (which are not your exclusive property), the fact that a mask does not capture 100% of droplets from a person’s mouth does not mean it doesn’t catch any. This is called logic. A mask catches some droplets, hence it is efficacious.
5. Your “facts on the ground” prove nothing.The fact that a mask mandate has not shut down the virus some places does not mean it has failed everyplace. You have no idea what else may be at play in NM or CA, such as failure to keep distance. This is called the interplay of several variables, which actual infectious disease specialists (but not Dr Internet) have to contend with. Nor does a mandate ensure compliance, as your impassioned comments here prophesy!
6. Finally, please put your money where your mouth is, and walk into your nearest county government center next Monday and make a huge public show of mask noncompliance. It will have to be wild enough to get a citation, but I have confidence in you, Bob! You will then be able to have your lawyer (or you as Internet JD) make your arguments about unconstitutional tyranny to a judge. It really is your civic duty, since you have educated yourself to such a great degree on this almost inconceivable abuse of tyrannical government power in 2020! Good luck and can’t wait to read all about it!
I would be more interested in Mr. Barnes’ willingness to prove his point by spending an hour in a closed telephone booth with an unmasked ill and sneezing COVID patient. If I understand him correctly, if they each keep to a corner and don’t physically touch, no transmission can occur.
Even better!
Waddaya say, Bob? Would that be enough of a “controlled trial” for you?
Except masks and lockdowns do work. Countries that have aggressively used them are beating this. The same is true for states and cities in the US, while places like Florida with poor compliance are being overwhelmed.
What I can’t figure out is why some people are twisting themselves into knots trying to deny the obvious. I realize that many conservatives have a poor understanding of economics (and voted for a president with zero understanding) but the effectiveness of doing this is clear.
Do you want the economy to fail? Do you want the US to be in recession for years while the rest of the world moves on? Because that is what is going to happen if we don’t do this.
Just put on a d*** mask when you go to the store.
“Research finds masks effective”
That statement was just directly disputed by the Association of American Physicians and surgeons.
July 20, 2020
COVID Masks, Distancing Not Evidence-Based
https://aapsonline.org/covid-masks-distancing-not-evidence-based/
It would seem weird that their findings are out of step with more prominent medical organizations, but as I expected this is a right-wing political group, not anything with findings based on actual science.
You have cited pure nonsense. Its politics, not science.
WIkipedia has some interesting comments about these guys:
The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism.
Sure, let’s rely on their opinion. What could possibly go wrong?
First, the article you linked to did not dispute the research, it said it was not “evidence-based”. In other words, we have to wait a few more months to gather the evidence before we take action.
Then, there’s the question of what the AAPS is. On the surface, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons sounds like a reasonable group. But lift the cover on this toilet and you find the positions of the AAPS:
“The COVID-19 pandemic/panic is destroying the free-enterprise economy, getting people to accept draconian restrictions on liberty, and making people increasingly dependent on government.”
“There are potential treatments, but government, social media giants, and the gurus of evidence-based medicine are suppressing use or even discussion of cheap, safe, currently available modalities such as antimalarials or high-dose IV vitamin C.” (I guess now evidence-based medicine is bad.)
AAPS sued the FDA over the FDA’s conclusion tha hydroxychloroquine was not effective for Covid-19.
The AAPS is an ultra right wing, anti-government organization that cherry-picks the data to support it’s ideology.
“AAPS sued the FDA over the FDA’s conclusion that hydroxychloroquine was not effective for Covid-19.”
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/07/02/michigan-henry-ford-health-study-finds-hydroxychloroquine-lowers-covid-19-death-rate/5365090002/
The pharmaceutical industry stands to reap billions from therapeutic medicines. You think they are not interested in stopping the emergence of an inexpensive generic?
Interesting article, but you should read it through before jumping to conclusions:
“Roughly 82% of the patients began receiving hydroxychloroquine within 24 hours and 91% within 48 hours, a factor Dr. Marcus Zervos identified as a potential key to the medication’s success.”
Assuming that these results present meaningful guidance for treatment, it looks like testing and swift analysis of results is part of the strategy. The problem, of course, is that if we have more testing we will find more people who are affected. Dammit.
“But Zervos cautioned against extrapolating the results for treatment outside hospital settings and without further study.”
That strikes me as a good idea.
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons has also published
-That HIV does not cause AIDS
-That government efforts to help smoking cessation are misguided
-That the FDA and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional
-That President Obama hypnotized audiences with his speeches
Their journal is not in academic literature databases because their articles are not scientifically valid.
They are an ultra right-wing fringe political group. Any “study” they have published on masks is as politically motivated as their other “studies”.
About time! Compliance with local mandates from the mayors has been too spotty to be effective. Many people are still unaware of the mandates, and many businesses just don’t enforce them. That’s because cities don’t enforce them.
I’m hoping that with a well publicized state mandate, local authorities will actually begin enforcement measures. And maybe members of the public will feel some responsibility to speak up when they witness noncompliance. Maybe we need a hotline and a quick-response team.
On the flipside, it’s going to fun to watch those protest rallies supporting the right to infect.
You didn’t hurt yourself, like sprain an ankle with that leap between wearing a mask and quarantine did you, I just want to make sure you’re ok.
I thought you were a 10thA guy, because it’s the 10th that gives states the power to mandate a mask, well, the 10th and our state constitution. The Governor has broad authority to “protect and maintain the health and safety” of the states citizens – mandating a mask during an air borne pandemic certainly qualifies. SO my question to you is what percentage effectiveness does something have to have before it’s not tyranny any more? Is it a zero sum game, where 99% effectiveness is still tyranny, or is your threshold lower. Just curious.
I like this analogy.
If distancing works, why masks. If masks work, why distancing. If both work, why a vaccine.
If seatbelts work, why airbags. If airbags work, why seatbelts. If both work, why brakes.
Hasn’t anyone explained to Gazelka what RO means, and that viruses don’t care about county lines? Not to mention how damaging the virus can be to folks who survive?
A mask mandate equals a quarantine?
Really?
The use of such ridiculous hyperbole renders moot whatever point you might be making and calls into question your veracity.
From Merriam Webster “ : a restraint upon the activities or communication of persons or the transport of goods designed to prevent the spread of disease or pests”.
Preventing people from going into stores etc unless they mask up is effectively a quarantine. The State must prove someone is sick before they can quarantine them. Forcing them to wear a mask against their will or pay a fine without even proving that it has any effect or that the virus is even airborne is tyranny.
Um, forcing someone to wear a cheap, readily available cloth face mask in order to enter a store during a dangerous pandemic declared by state, federal and UN authorities is not a “restraint upon the activities of a person” to the extent that any reasonable person would think they were under “quarantine”. This argument would be considered not serious.
Total etymological fail.
Those people won’t be worried about the “tyranny” of mask wearing when their businesses have gone under and they have lost their jobs. That is what is going to happen if we don’t get ahead of Covid. The rest of the world is leaving us behind.
So all you have to do is claim you are not wearing a mask for health reasons and that is the end of it. You can bet that 99+ percent of those claiming an exemption are lying.
Yeah, that’s one of the serious shortcomings of this mandate. But HIPAA has to be considered as well, so I don’t know what else could have been done.
So what? You have cited a group that is notoriously rightwing, anti-science, and anti-vaxx. But, you cynically assumed that since its names included words “association” and “physicians” it must have some sort of credibility.
I always wear a mask, but they are not the silver bullet everyone thinks. For some people the mask has become a talisman. Nothing bad will happen to me I have my mask.
Nor is wearing a seat belt any guarantee I would be injured in a car accident, but I still wear one (and did so even before it was required by law).
“I would not be injured”.
A careful reading of virtually all the guidances around mask wearing emphasize that mask wearing is not meant to be a replacement for other good practices such as hand washing and social distancing, but is intended to be used in conjunction with them.
Unfortunately, most people don’t bother to take the time to do a careful reading of such guidances.
Ahh yes. AAPS. The same group that says HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, abortions cause breast cancer. Proven liars. Great source.
A mask mandate restrains no activity, communication or transport.
Anti nudity laws are effectively a quarantine by your lax logic.
Genitalia doesn’t spread covid and forcing people to cover them is tyranny!
While a lead bullet will not kill a werewolf, it can slow it down.
Perhaps talisman isn’t so far off. Research indicates that people stay farther away from those wearing masks then they do the unmasked. People subconsciously keeping more distance is beneficial.
I am using the reply to option but it is not working. Anyhoo. The first comment is for Bob and the second for Jeffrey. In case one couldn’t tell
Several comments have taken issue with the AAPS, citing political motivation behind their studies; fair enough. We cannot deny that politics plays a role in almost every issue that comes to public attention in the current year. It’s certainly worth knowing what motivates the groups (and media) we cite, but focusing a counter argument on the who, rather than the what is a well known logical fallacy.
So, with that acknowledgement, I wonder if any of the AAPS critics will have the same sense of credulity when a widely respected organization, say the UofM’s Center for Disease Research and Policy, finds itself forced to push back against (unnamed) groups that want it’s conclusion that “Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data” removed because it was being used to warrant arguments against mandatory masking?
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
Thankfully, although the have added a conciliatory (and silly in context with what follows it) caveat, they have evidently refused to be bullied. Kudos to them.
“In summary, though we support mask wearing by the general public, we continue to conclude that cloth masks and face coverings are likely to have limited impact on lowering COVID-19 transmission, because they have minimal ability to prevent the emission of small particles, offer limited personal protection with respect to small particle inhalation, and should not be recommended as a replacement for physical distancing or reducing time in enclosed spaces with many potentially infectious people.”
Additionally, the director of the CIDRAP, Michael Osterholm has gone to great lengths to clarify his position. He supports the wearing of masks, but concludes they are not very effective, if at all and could be counterproductive if people overestimate whatever effectiveness they might have.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/commentary-my-views-cloth-face-coverings-public-preventing-covid-19
So they support wearing masks, but you have concluded that their article does not support wearing masks?
Did you miss the part where they said that “The pandemic is not over and will not likely be over for some time”?
Your last line deflates your argument, UNLESS you can point to a comment, an opinion, an article, something, ANYTHING anywhere, that argues for the use of masks in substitution for other mitigation procedures. Your argument boils down, as all conservative arguments do of late, to “I will not agree with any position that can be interpreted as making my party, my president, or myself look incorrect and indecisive, and which allows my opposition the opportunity to make political hay on that fact”. You’re of course entitled to that approach, ghastly and dangerous as it might be, given the stakes involved, but understand that everyone can SEE that position for what it is, no one is deceived.
Fortunately, Walz is not using masks as a replacement for social distancing, or saying they allow one to expand one’s “time in enclosed spaces with many potentially infectious people” (i.e. the general public). Indeed, Minnesotans are being urged (and in some instances mandated) to observe all three conditions. And (in that context) Osterholm is voicing his “support for mask wearing by the general public”.
But why is this a hill the American “conservative” movement feels a need to hold at all costs? Simply to prove they are “right” about something (in an extremely limited theoretical way)? Do “conservatives” simply have to oppose everything the libs do, no matter what? It seems simple reflexive opposition, sort of like a three year old…
Here is the difference: the AAPS is political, but its not science. Its nonsense. Garbage. Deliberate and objective falsehoods. Its pseudo-science masking itself as science to the science-illiterate. Most of the commenters here recognize this extremely obvious fact.
Scientific conclusions evolve based on new information. Science is based on evidence, not a pre-determined conclusions. And science may get things wrong at first.
But there is overwhelming consensus and overwhelming evidence that masks to limit the spread. And even the legitimate mask skeptics like Osterholm recommend wearing masks.
Again, I am going to ask, why the resistance? Other countries are getting ahead of this because of high mask use and other measures. But our country has failed miserably. Other countries won’t take Americans in because of our Covid response. Anti-mask Republicans are now supporting masks and even Trump seems to be getting on board. Because they realize the economy won’t recover until they do.
Bob…..Is ‘No shirt, No shoes, No service’ a quarantine ?
Don’t go giving him ideas.
No shirt, no shoes, no service is not a law, it is a private businesses dress code. It is not mandated by law and there are places where they serve folks with no shoes or shirt. It is a private choice by the customer and business as to whether they go to that particular store or not…. Totally different than a Government mandate. There will be a slew of “medical conditions “ coming up and by HIPPA law, you don’t have to disclose your “condition “ .
I have seen the claim that people can circumvent mask requirements with claimed medical conditions that they need not disclose due to HIPAA. And as an attorney who had litigated both public accommodations and HIPAA (its HIPAA not HIPPA) cases, I can tell you that is complete nonsense. Completely false. No basis in the law whatsoever.
Nope, a store manager has no right to your medical history. All you have to do is claim medical condition and they have to let you in. As much as the Left would like you to have to bring a note, you do not have to.
That is completely false. 100 percent untrue. The law explicitly does allow a store to ask what your condition is. HIPAA has no application whatsoever to that issue. I realize that there is a lot of false information about HIPAA floating around, but the people behind it are either lying or completely ignorant about the law.
https://vitals.lifehacker.com/hipaa-doesnt-mean-you-cant-ask-people-why-they-arent-we-1844519626?utm_campaign=Lifehacker&utm_content=1595880122&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1AmLq1srXZcsNkKwk8XoNAWWafr_M9y8smDoyOsX7v_EL4LKrMtVC_hvs
Thank you for providing links to these studies and focusing on the science, not the politics, of mask wearing. It is extremely difficult to speak out against the prevailing opinions when fear of the unknown grips people.
Gov. Walz’s order states:
“Businesses may not require customers to provide proof of a medical condition
mental health condition, or disability, or require customers to explain the
nature of their conditions or disability.” (Page 12, paragraph 15c). https://www.leg.state.mn.us/archive/execorders/20-81.pdf
Thank you for the direct quote from Gov Walz. All you have to do is read the regulations posted on the door of every business. It shares the list of medical conditions that exempt folks from wearing masks. You don’t even have to be a lawyer to understand it.
Your statement was that HIPAA prohibits a commercial business from asking as to the medical condition that limits mask-wearing. Mr. Terry replied that HIPAA does not do so, and to my knowledge that is correct: HIPAA prohibitions on disclosures applies to disclosures by medical care/insurance providers.
What the Governor’s executive order states is a wholly separate matter. As Ms. Swenson relates, the order does state that a customer cannot be required to disclose his or her medical condition that purportedly limits mask-wearing. Note however that this does not mean that the customer may enter without a mask; the purported medical condition is simply what entitles the customer to “accommodations” that a commercial business must provide, which may include providing a different form of face covering or serving the customer without his or her entering the business (paragraph 15.b).
Okay let me get this straight, a medical care facility can’t get your health records but you have to disclose your medical condition to the Holiday gas manager…. Bottom line is you cannot be turned away by law and Governor’s decree for not wearing a mask and you do not have to disclose your condition. That was said originally and it is still true.
Now you’re fuzzing it up just because you can’t admit you were wrong. You said “by HIPPA law, you don’t have to disclose your ‘condition’.” This is wrong. HIPAA prohibits medical care and insurance providers from disclosing your medical information to a third party without your consent. It has nothing to do with your conversation with the Holiday gas manager, unless the Holiday gas manager is also your cardiologist.
The Governor’s order is entirely separate. Here you use the vague term (I presume intentionally) that a maskless person who claims a condition “cannot be turned away.” This may or may not be correct, depending on what you mean. The person must be offered an accommodation, but does not have the right to enter the store if the accommodation does not involve that (for example if a store employee does the shopping for the person).
Emergency Executive Order 20-81
Paragraphs 15b and c:
“b.When possible, businesses must provide accommodations to persons, including their workers and customers, who state they have a medical condition, mental health condition, or disability that makes it unreasonable for the person to maintain a face covering, such as permitting use of an alternate form of face covering (e.g., face shield) or providing service options that do not require a customer to enter the business.
c.Businesses may not require customers to provide proof of a medical condition mental health condition, or disability, or require customers to explain the nature of their conditions or disability.”
You simply must state to the Holiday gas manager that you HAVE a medical condition. You are not required to disclose WHAT that medical condition is. That is a wholly different situation from that of a medical care facility that requires details of your medical condition in order to provide proper care and must go through legally required application processes to obtain those details.
And yes, you can be turned away from ENTERING THE BUSINESS. But you can still be provided service without entering (e.g. offered curbside service, delivery options, etc.) These are not difficult concepts to understand for anyone who is not willfully resisting understanding them.
Also, where do you get the idea that there is this “list of medical conditions that exempt folks from wearing masks” that you claim is “posted on the door of every business”?
When 100 people demand personal shoppers every morning to get their goods from Cub Foods, we will see how long the business turn shoppers away who have medical conditions. As I stated, many folks will have medical conditions and the stores will have to adapt to them, not the other way around.
See comment by Matt Haas below . . . . . . . .
Wait until Joe finds out I was using the occasion of gazing upon the rather kitschy bronze of ol’ St. Ronnie out front to educate some passing youths on the particulars of the “formerly worst President in history”.
Evidentially Matt didn’t see where Walmart reversed their mask policy because folks were not buying in to the hype that it helped… Just the start of many reversals to come… Home Depot, Lowes, Walgreens, CVS.
Strange, the local Wally world has its mask policy in full effect, with the same 100% compliance I witnessed elsewhere. The previously well stocked mask display had been sold out when last I visited.
On the door is where you find the medical exemptions clause.
Becauae HIPAA applies to medical records and not public accommodations.
Bottom line is that you are completely wrong.
A store also doesn’t have to let you in without a mask. They can make other accommodations, i.e, shopping for you.
Having a COVID19 experience right now. Had a secondary exposure on Thursday at work and I meet CDC guidelines for getting a test.
Likely easier to get tickets to a Rolling Stones Concert. 6 Months into this and it is still like dialing for dollars, no consistent answers, interminable phone waits. Every clinic on their own with their own rules,
Finally got one today: Not annoying in the least: The Doc did the test and all I could say was:
“That’s it? People are complaining about the discomfort of this?
Now, of course, I get to wait 3-10 days for results. Pursue why so long a wait and you will learn that test kits are being redeployed to Florida where an incompetent Governor believed an incompetent President and reopened way to soon and now we are affected as our allocated test kits are going to Florida.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm6yjTrGkLc
Oh, and because of this we are shutting down 5 people at work, not doing work that must be done at work. Trump claims he is all about reopening the economy but is clueless on how to do it. Because testing is so incompetently run, one immediate test with a quick turnaround could have saved multiple follow on tests and the loss of one to two weeks of productive employment.
Want the one single biggest reason we are in the mess we are in right now?
If the opinion of experts conflicts with a Trump hunch, the hunch wins every-time.
Edward, I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
Here’s to hoping for a negative test result. Fingers firmly crossed!
It’s Monday, all government centers are open for business, Mr Barnes. I trust you will today begin your highly principled campaign of civil disobedience to rid the state of the tyranny of mask-wearing during a dangerous pandemic. And surely you will keep all your Minnpost pals informed!
I note that three of the five “most commented” stories up on Minnpost right now involve Walz’s mask mandate. This is because in all of them a couple “conservative” commenters are engaged in “proving” that mask-wearing has absolutely, categorically no benefit whatever in combating the spread of Covid 19, while also decrying the “tyranny” of the massive sacrifice involved. The question of “what if you guys are wrong?” has no effect on them. Nor does the question “What’s the harm even if you’re right?” The possibility of increased human suffering if they are wrong has not the slightest purchase on them, apparently.
Instead, they are myopically focused on trawling the internet for various mask-usage studies that (supposedly) support their position no matter what the CDC may be today advising, imagining themselves now as infectious disease specialists with a degree from Internet U. As though the actual experts in public health across the nation (and world) haven’t also read the very same studies our Dr(s) Internet cite. But this sort of misplaced self-confidence and unjustified belief in one’s self-educated “expertise” is just another symptom of the failed Conservative Era.
One is reminded of the great trial scene in The Caine Mutiny, with Captain Queeq on the stand, fondling his ball bearings, intoning: “then there were the strawberries…that’s where I had them. I proved using geometric logic that here had to be a duplicate key to the storage room…..But ask me your questions, ask me your questions, and I’ll do my best to answer them….” We don’t have any more questions, Captain(s) Conservative.
It would be comic if this brand of “conservatism” hadn’t resulted in the destruction of the nation’s democracy, economy and world standing, not to mention the ruination of the environment and the 11,000 year old stable climate.
Strange then, given the apparent overwhelming silent majority of proud conservative patriots (eye roll here if you weren’t already) I seemed to encounter 100% compliance with the mask order in my travels over the weekend, including a visit to a rather prominent, newly opened sporting goods behemoth in the SW metro. None seemed to put out by the mask to refrain from purchasing their crates of ammo, or the firearms to use them, given the rather lengthy line to do so. Not a whiff of complaint noted amongst any of my fellow travellers to boot. Must be quite a VAST conspiracy against our resident diatribers it seems.
Yes, thanks for the report. It’s starting to appear that the Anti-Maskers are a very small group of radical extremists.
Some polls out showing that 40% of Repubs oppose mask mandates. So a minority of Repubs are Anti-Maskers, but perhaps a bigger group than we thought…the true hard core ideologues.
They might oppose them, but still succumb to peer pressure in practice. I haven’t been outstate, so who knows what they’re up to? I was pleasantly surprised by the the amount of compliance (including by my normally stubborn father) in rural Western WI when I visited recently, despite the only mandates having been set forth by businesses. I expect that, as is the case with many of the most vocal internet conservative agitators, the bark is generally worse than the bite.
When I was a teenager, I thought I would become a “Republican” and a “Conservative” because the words looked so good and sounded nice. I was a stupid kid at the time, and eventually ended up as a Democrat due, primarily to their emphasis on health, education and welfare for the most vulnerable people in society.
I wonder how many of those who claim to be “Republicans” and “conservatives” are as I was over forty years ago.
The notion that this is a liberal vs. conservative fight is nonsense. For anyone reading the international news, we find that other nations have improved their standing in the economic and health worlds by doing what our Commander in Chief has reluctantly come to admitting: that masks do help alleviate high numbers of viral outbreak.
Unless I am tired and forget to wear a mask, I wear a mask whenever I leave my apartment — to go for the mail or to empty the garbage. I do it for two reasons: 1) I want to set an example around the apartment complex for others who may not understand that by not wearing a mask, infection may be spread to those who are vulnerable, and 2) In case I am asymptomatic, I don’t want to spread the virus to others, especially elderly and sick members of the community.
People like Bob Barnes do exist. They are on the losing edge of this concern. They may go on to infect other people. They may, like Brasil’s president, balk at the idea of wearing masks and then end up getting the virus and encountering discomfort or even death for themselves of members of their family or others close to them.
With all of the concern that so-called conservatives have for the economy, it strikes me as brilliant that they haven’t seen that other countries are now in a better position to prosper and enjoy universal freedoms as a result of taking measures to control the spread of the virus. The nonsense that we are seeing on the so-called Right is doing wonders for our national reputation around the world. Before Trump, our nation enjoyed widespread respect from most nations. We are now seen as idiots due to the people who want to see our economy shine, without fail, without taking precautions because of the “tyranny” that so-called left-wing governors (and now Republican governors) have mandated mask-wearing.
Governor Walz, thank you for standing true to your desire to keep our state’s people safe and healthy.
An added note of caution: Many people think of themselves as members of political communities for many different reasons. My comment, above, about my own ignorance as a teenager, is not meant to condem all Republicans. I know of men and women who are fine people who are Republicans and who have the community’s well-being at the heart of their thoughts, in addition to their concerns for their businesses and the business community at large.
My concern for the current conversation is that some people are equating not wearing a mask as being a sign of their devotion to their political party or persuasion is itself naive and ignorant. The more we put off taking precautions to quell the virus, the longer we will all have difficulties gaining personal wealth and prosperity, and well-being, from activities which typically bring us together. Hence, it is my belief that we should take people on an individual basis, as well as to look at their evolution in beliefs to determine how we should regard them and their consideration of our community. The emphasis that many writers are putting on defining others as a member of this or that or another political party is driving us apart as a community.
We must work toward a consensus and not allow our identity as a member of a political party or movement drive intractable wedges between us as members of a regional, state, national or international community.
Very noble sentiment, one that I’d like to agree with. Unfortunately that is impossible, since it was the “conservative” movement that began the current civil war by demonizing lib’ruls (google Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich) and whose wholly-owned Repub party refuses to compromise at every turn–largely to the cheers of those who call themselves “conservatives”. Refusal to compromise is their modus operandi, and any Repub who tries it is a “Rino”. Hence the insanity of thinking one will “mediate” with them, circa 2020.
It’s fine to take right-leaning people on an “individual basis”; I’m addressing them on their (very clear) collective basis. The Repub party (via its actual elected officials) has doubled down on every terrible position that it has manufactured over the past 30 years, and with every defeat only gets more extreme. “Conservatism” cannot fail, it can only be failed: that is the sentiment. The tragedy is that our failed constitution (which we cannot possible reform) allows Repub minority rule to persist indefinitely, and the democratically-illegitimate “conservative” majority on the Supreme Court is committed to ensuring that voting rights and protections are swept away entirely. There is thus absolutely no incentive for them to change, absent total defeat.
So it’s great that you know some nice Repubs, and don’t want to replicate their strategy of driving wedges between citizens, regions, etc. But as a whole, their party is now destroying the country and its democracy, and the only answer in 2020 is that the “conservative” movement be politically annihilated, or we are doomed. As for the proper “tone” to take, as Lincoln said, “one must fight fire with fire”.
Mr. Anderson,
Your very negative view of people in politics renders your sentiments as unlikely to have much effect on changing minds of people in any political party. Your lack of optimism, faith, and respect for people show your cynicism in flying colors.
It is by having respect for other people and attempting to find words and statements which bring people together that changes and stabilizes society.
I wish you luck in your endeavors, but your pet names, such as “Dem” and “Repub”, and your use of the misspelling of liberal (you use “librul”), serve to undermine your desire to have a much different world.
A statement similar to this was censored by MinnPost earlier this week. I hope MinnPost will see the wisdom in allowing me freedom of speech and that they will present it on this forum.
Incredible that after 5 months we still have people out there who believe that PhDs in virology are charlatans and that AM talk radio hosts with GED’s are trusted sources of information. It’s no wonder the rest of the world views us with pity.
Hence the parallels with global warming and “conservative” climate denialism, which exists to this day. And also a foreshadowing of any other issue in future when scientists attempt to tell American conservatives something they don’t want to hear (or believe)…
And that is one of the most concerning bits of knowledge to come out of the Corona-virus debacle:
The canned Conservative response to climate change is always: “unsettled science” to be determined later.
With the Corona-virus debacle there is very little unsettled: we see the results of nations who responded intelligently and nations that did not. And the results could not be more clear on what works and what does not work and yet we see legions of alleged Conservatives denying simple math and 2 axis charts.
It is not unlike if we had the ability to peer far into infinite space and identify multiple planets facing similar climate change dilemmas, being able to see how each managed their way through and in the end have undisputed results on the best path forward and these same Conservatives would say: “Not so fast there, your data and my desires do not match up here”.
Or as Charlie Brown told Linus:
“Tell your statistics to shut up!”
Not all Republicans are climate deniers. My friend, Rob, owns 79 convenience store/gas stations. They are called MotoMart. Three are located in Minnesota. One is in south Minneapolis, and one is in Blaine. The other is in Forest Lake. They employ over 800 people nationally. Rob’s company has received high distinction through an industry movement which promotes LEED certified infrastructure in his stations.
I am a Democrat but keep my mind open to conversations with people from different political parties, religions and nationalities.
That’s great. But if your (climate-concerned) Repub friend still votes for Repub candidates, he might as well be a climate denier because there are virtually no elected Repubs in DC who either agree that there is a climate problem or think that we can “afford” to do anything about it. And a huge number of them literally still deny that the NASA scientists have even figured out the cause of the (irrefutable) warming of the earth.
If one cares about doing something to try to save the climate, then one can’t vote for any Repub, full stop, since the party is simply a wholly-owned arm of the (denialist) “conservative” movement and the rightwing billionaires who fund its existence.
But I do apologize for taking a MN mask mandate thread so far afield. Sorry Greta!